While kicking off a wine cellar, I’ve been encouraged to limit myself to three of each wine at the beginning to avoid overstocking a particular region/producer/vintage as my tastes are likely to change. This recommendation seems to beg the question: For each of the more ageable regions/styles, what are the three ages at which to sample them to get a handle on how they change over time? This may be the type of question for which I get as many different answers as people I ask. There are many variables, including the particular producer/vintage in question and I don’t expect to get to anything like consensus. However, I’m curious how folks in the community think about it and whether there can be any sort of broad guidelines for folks trying to understand ageing for a particular region. Is it possible to say something like, for left bank Bordeaux, sampling at 10, 15, and 20 years can give you a general sense for how they progress? Or for NV Champagne, a good rule of thumb is to sample at 0, 2, and 4 years? Would your advice be different for German Kabinett vs Spatlese?
I don’t think you’d find agreement on this even if you fixed a vintage, a village in Burgundy and a well-known producer.
Yep, thinking of Burgundy, vintage matters a lot… I’d be happy to try pretty much any 2017 today but wouldn’t dare open a 2018.
Although I will say - tasting more young wines these past couple years, I think the sweet spot for an early check-in on pinot noir might be around 3 years (so drinking 2022s now). Tasted quite a few of them in late summer/early fall last year (mostly Oregon+Burgundy) and some showed as disjointed. Haven’t got much of that at all recently and they haven’t closed down yet either.
So many variables at play. You might find wide agreement on particular vintages of particular bottles but even that is subject to taste.
Just open things and try them. You can read everything on the board knows but you’ll never really “get it” until you experience for yourself. That might sound challenging or dismissive but its actually where the fun is.
I like to visit most burgs on release, in the 7-10 year range, in the 12-15 year range, and at 20+ years.
Do y’all feel like Burgundy is a region for which it is harder to find consensus on guidelines than most other regions or is it likely that it is approximately equally difficult to decide on three ages that outline the changes in German Riesling, Barolo, Champagne, or anything else? Also, how do you feel about vintage charts with respect to choosing a particular vintage within a target range? I’ve gotten the sense that there are mixed feelings on this board about the value of vintage charts generally but, for someone that is new to Burgundy for example, it can be helpful to have some way to choose a specific vintage. Is it possible that they’re no better than just picking three vintages spaced evenly apart if you’re goal is to understand progression rather than to optimize one specific experience?
Apologies for my overanalyzing @Cris_Whetstone but I’m an engineer so it’s a bit out of my control 
You’ll be happy to learn that my first “drink now” case arrives Tuesday.
I think it is different than other regions. That all being said I don’t really drink wines from regions other than red Burgundy and Champagne with a few exceptions. I don’t think vintage charts are too useful. I made a post about burgundy vintage experiences which for me is significantly more useful.
Found it, thanks!
Same(engineer). The most important thing is to enjoy yourself. And I promise that trying things next to similar things and keeping notes helps the light bulbs go off. Remember that wine is about experiences.
Speaking of experiences and apropos of nothing in this thread, I tried my first saignee champagne tonight. Couldn’t agree more about where the fun is!
Some current personal strong rules, which I’ve arrived at circuitously, but I’ll always adjust and freely vary these based on how I think a wine is developing:
I think it’s a mistake not to sample right bank Bordeaux at 4-6 years for their vigor and power if you’ve got multiple bottles except maybe for the chateau on the limestone slopes right outside of town that seem to call for age . You can usually backfill these. I think left bank Bordeaux should be sampled at 10 years, give or take.
I like sampling California cabernet and cab blends at 6 years to get a read on them. That gives time for some tannins to settle down and give a halfway decent guess as to its future. Some like Monte Bello are really something at 24-25 years.
California pinot noir drink them all 3-5 years, perhaps stretch to 8 years. There’s a difference between still good with age versus improving with age. With very few exceptions CA pn falls into the former.
Oregon pinot noir is a really interesting one. I’d say early 3-5 years for the more fruit forward ones. But the ones I really like that are more structured/elegant 7-10 years minimum and I’ve learned the value of keeping some for 15-25+ years because I’ve been blown away by the ones I’ve had up to 38 years old.
CdP: 8, 10, and 12-15 years. Yes they can be magnificent at 15-25 years but I don’t feel inclined to run that experiment much because I get peak enjoyment in my preferred windows.
I think it’s always a good idea to sample village and PC red Burgundy at less than 4 years before they shut down. But I wouldn’t sample GC early usually.
California or Washington syrah: 5-8 years for fruit forward versions and 8-12 years for more savory versions. It’s worth keeping some for longer periods to see how you like them too but I’ve found more that just gradually fade away rather than improve after 12.
California zin blends usually 3-5 years but there are a few, like most of the Bedrock lineup, that seem to really improve with 8-10 years and in some cases seem to need it.
White Bordeaux blends and Northern Rhone whites. Those are interesting ones. Try one <5 years, then at 8-10 and then at 25, 30 if you can.
@MChang please let me know if I screwed up somewhere but, cross-referencing with your vintage experiences, I have your 4-sample Burgundy recommended orientation in 2025 as:
| Region / Style | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Red Burgundy | 2021 | 2017 | 2010 | 2000 - 2002 |
Wow @Steve_Costigan, this is wonderfully helpful. Thank you!
Yeah that’s about right
I’d add that one the easiest calls for a cellar is German riesling (and Austrian but I admit not as much experience there). One of my greatest wine pleasures is a 15-20 year old spatelese or auslese. And kabinett starting at 10 years. I don’t feel inclined to do much sampling when they are young and are happy to let them sleep but you can open one at any point. I’d recommend anyone starting out put away at least half a case every good vintage. In a long-lived vintage they seem immortal.
Buy 4 bottles and drink one on release.
Well, of course it depends on region/variety, vintage, vineyard, style and producer … but to know a wine I’d recommend
- (barrel sample)
- 3 to 9 months after bottling
- *)
- at full maturity
*) in between bottling and maturity, bur avoiding a closed phase ( can be at 5, 10, even 15+ years)
Thanks for this, it’s interesting. Do you think that having a general system gives you more leeway to buy fewer of any one cellar worthy wine? It seems like you could sometimes get away with a minimum of 2 rather than the more typical 3.
I guess now you can add “retailer” to your list of variables as auction purchases are always a crapshoot with regards to how the wine was stored all it’s life. Sorry.