I’ve been gathering advice from the experienced folks on this board to determine what vintages are best as an introduction to the different age-able regions / styles of wine to try to get an outline of how they progress. I figured I’d post the information I’ve gathered so far in case it’s useful to other folks in a similar situation. This is meant to change as I get feedback so please let me know if you have a recommendation of 4 orientation vintages for a region not yet included or you want to propose a change to one already included. The audience for this table is someone who is brand new to the region and wants to get a sense for the shape of the region’s progression without spending a fortune.
Please note, this can’t be considered anything like a consensus, which is impossible. It’s more like a shared shopping list for someone who doesn’t know where to start for a region and doesn’t have a ton of time to do a lot of research.
If you happen to do one of these orientations, please let me know your all-in cost for the four bottles so I can add it to the table. Please include any auction premium and shipping cost to give folks some expectation of what they will need to spend to get these wines into their hands.
Cheers!
All-in Bottle Cost ($)
No format
< $90
Italics
$90 - $150
Bold
> $150
Red
Region
Varietal
1
2
3
4
QPR Range ($ at release)
QPR Wines
All-in Cost ($)
References
Bordeaux (Left Bank)
Red Bordeaux Blend
2014 or 2019
2000 or 2001
89, '90, '95, or '96
1982
$30 - $60
Branaire-Ducru d’Armailhac LaGrange d’Issan Haut-Bages Libéral Full list
I didn’t closely read your other thread, but I am surprised that you don’t have a row for Nebbiolo, specifically Barolo or Barbaresco. My rough suggestions:
#1 Mad as hell phase: 2019-2021 #2 Showing signs of adulthood: 1999-2008 #3 Age of Glory: 1985-1996 #4 If you’re lucky, you’re a god: 1961, 1964, 1967
For most of the California/Oregon/Washington rows, the years listed aren’t going to show much progression. There’s a lot of potential differences between the regions based on vintage variation, but I’d look to go back at least a few more years to show how these wines can develop. Eg. 2009/2015/2019 for Sonoma Pinot. So I guess for these regions I’d leave these as blank until you get enough info to really fill in something specific.
I didn’t notice the Oregon rows. I am not entirely sure how I would segregate fruit forward vs. structured. My three benchmarks are Goodfellow, Patricia Green, and Kelley Fox. They are all fruit forward on release (especially the KF), but are also all structured, have savory elements, and are highly ageworthy.
I go with: #1 on release (2022/2023) #2 5-7 years in (2016-2017) #3 10-15 years in (2010-2015) #4 15-30+ (1993-2008)
@Andrew_K if someone doesn’t have access to a cellar with aged Champagne do you think there’s some way for them to acquire bottles from the 90s or 80s or will they need to go vintage? I see a 1995 Piper-Heidsieck Brut on WineBid for $175. Would that give someone a bit of perspective on maturity? I’d like to be a bit sensitive to prices getting up over $300 or $350 for older Champagne if it’s possible to “orient” at a lower cost but if it’s essential it’s better to include the information and folks can make their own choice on whether they need the whole orientation given the expense.
Your point on a broader range of vintages to show progression makes sense to me. I updated the California Pinot vintages to add a bit more spread. Do you think it’s critical that we separate Sonoma and other regions within California for Pinot or will this provide a pretty good overview for a first-timer who can then dive deeper on the regions if the intro piques their curiosity?
An interesting approach, and you’re absolutely wise to talk of the impossibility of reaching a concensus… and for me that’s part of the joy of exploring, that we have to find what’s great for us, not just looking up a rating and buying on that.
For Barolo/Barbaresco, it’s important to get a feel for where you fit on the trad/modern spectrum, and Pat Burton’s excellent wiki style post is well worth seeking out to understand differences between producers. It’s also useful to get a feel for whether you like the more austere cellaring style of say a 1996 or 2006, or enjoy more open vintages like 2007 that can be drunk earlier and may not shut down.
When talking QPR, I’d strongly recommend including Langhe Nebbiolo in the mix. There are a range of styles, from basic table wines, up to mini Barolo / mini Barbaresco, and when exploring the region, this can prove an excellent introduction. Highlights for me have included: Cascina Saria (a small Barbaresco producer) whose 2011 Langhe nebbiolo was repeatedly excellent over a 10 year period and still wasn’t fading when we had the last bottle; Cascina Ballarin, which has since split between the two branches of the family, but whose Langhe Nebbiolo had clear echoes of their Barolo; Cavalotto, whose prices are certainly high, but for me they shine across the whole range, and their Langhe nebbiolo certainly has structure, more so than a good number of Barolo wines.
Other producers? Difficult for me to recommend QPR given US prices can be wildly different to UK. On the whole I’d say the best value is away from those labels lauded by critics / most talked about (including here). A visit to the region the very best way to discover gems / QPR gems. For a trad style that should be available, I’ve always liked Marcarini, and they have a rare knack for making good balanced wines in hot vintages (which I normally avoid). La Ca’ Nova in Barbaresco would have been a strong (traditional) QPR recco, but since Galloni wet his pants over them a while back, I suspect US prices will have escalated. A great example of a winery no-one talked about offering great value… but since he’s talked them up, who knows now.
I love this idea, thanks! What do you think of this as a starting tour for Langhe Nebbiolo? I basically found a few strong vintages across 10 years according to Wine Spectator’s PIedmont vintage chart:
Hi Ryan
I’m buying so little now, that I’ve lost track of recent vintages, but others will be able to suggest years to try (and that includes possible side-by-side comparisons if wanting to use this to explore vintage styles). Certainly **2016 should be a good option, and cellartracker should have a good range of TNs to see where they are in their development. Putting one of those up against a more recent approachable vintage of the same wine, could be very informative.
regards
Ian
** The last vintage I paid decent attention to. I have enough naturing nebbiolo now, so buying has dropped considerably, hence I’ve not invested the time to follow vintage reports since c. 2016/7.
@Steve_Costigan and @Dan_Kravitz, sorry to trouble you but is there a Bordeaux Blanc that is age-able, good QPR, and you’d expect to be relatively available in the 2016, 2010, and 2000 vintages described in the orientation above? I was able to find 2021s relatively easily but 2016 and beyond seem pretty sparse on wine searcher and WineBid. Perhaps this particular orientation will just take more patience to source? Here are a few of the blancs I found in 2021 and have been having trouble sourcing for the older vintages in the orientation:
White Bordeaux is a challenge in general because they tend to be expensive and as you’ve observed there aren’t large numbers produced so they are far harder to find with age on them compared to their red compatriots. I’d say the ones you listed are all good and some more reasonably priced ones.
The only one you listed I think that is well known for very long term aging is the Domaine de Chevalier. It drinks well young but has a reputation for being terrific with 25-40 years on them. As an example, I tasted the 2001 at 17 years old and it drank like it was bottled six months previously.
de Fieuzal I like a lot and buy it and think they mature more quickly than Dom de Chevalier. I’ve had terrific ones 8-12 years old but none older than that. Some critics think they’ve done well with multi-decade aging at least for past vintages.
Carbonneiux seems to be a pretty reliable mid-level and I usually buy one or two bottles a year but wouldn’t give up valuable space in my cellar for long term aging. I’ve had a few that got pretty interesting with 10-12 years on them.
The other two may get interesting with age but I don’t intentionally age them and drink most of them relatively young.
BTW, one terrific substitute is the DeLille chaleur blanc from Washington State, a Bordeaux blanc style blend. It’s really good for the price, about $40 now, and it ages surprisingly well. Tanzer did a vertical in 2020 that went back as far as the 1998 vintage and he found they aged beautifully. I doubt though they are 30-40 year wines but who knows.
Thanks very much for the detailed response! I’ll buy a couple of the 2021s for now (and try to be patient) and keep my eye on WineBid for the three you mentioned and try to grab them as they pop up in those older vintages.
Very good tip, thanks! I’ll add some of these to my next case.
Carbonnieux is pretty reliable, but I wouldn’t try to age it much past 15 years. From the little I know of Fieuzal, ditto.
Domaine de Chevalier is terrific and should age well past 20 years, although IIRC 20 is the oldest I’ve had.
Absolutely agree with DeLille Chaleur Blanc. It’s more than I like to spend, but well worth it.
I think it was 2022 that I did a blind tasting with Jeb Dunnuck of
2013 Domaine de Chevalier
2013 Delille Chaleur Estate Blanc
2013 Familia Agostino Blanc (Semillon - Sauvignon from Mendoza)
There were differences, but we all agreed that the wines were essentially very similar in both quality and style.
Chevalier is about $100.
Chaleur Estate (current vintages) can be found easily under $40, and in the low $30s
I imported Familia Agostino but it didn’t sell well. I’m hoarding my last six-pack of the 2015 for good friends who really love it. If somebody brought it in again full retail would be $30.
The regular Semillon from Ecole 41 in Washington is good, but not on the same level. I have to try their single vineyard bottling!
Makes sense, thanks! I’ll try to nab 2010s of the Carbonnieux and Fieuzal and a 2000 of the Chevalier if it isn’t crazy expensive (and they ever show up on WineBid).
Very helpful to know that DeLille will give me a good sense for the style at half the cost.
This is all so helpful, thanks to you both for your time!
