I think that’s generally correct as I do buy most of my wines in 2s or 3s and feel I have a good idea when would be best to open them, speaking for my palate only. But I think the number depends on how much I like the wine, it’s track record, and the quality of the vintage. I’m happy to order a single bottle of wine if it’s a like rather than a love. Sometimes I’ll buy six or more in a great vintage for a wine I truly love and want to follow over time.
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I’ll echo what Cris, says, but here’s a bit more in an effort to give you the kind of answer you’re looking for.
This is how I would approach the wines you mentioned in your post, given my own preferences:
Kabinett: I usually prefer Kabinett on the young side, so I can enjoy their youthful exuberance; I generally find they lack the stuffing to gain in excitement as they age, but there are some exceptions.
- within a year of release
- within 5 years from release
- within 10 years of release
.
Spatlese: I like these young and with age:
- within 3 years of release
- ~ 15 years from release
- I’ll use bottle (2) to calibrate this one, but I’m usually looking at ~ 20 - 25 years from release
.
Ageable L Bank Bdx (of note, even many of the “lesser” Bdx will age nicely for upwards of 20 yrs; what I’m talking about below is the mid-range classed growths I tend to buy (i.e.: Leoville Barton; Grand Puy Lacoste, Rauzan Segla, Pichon Baron ---- that general range))
- 10 years from vintage, unless I see notes from folks I trust that suggest it’s approachable early (within a couple years of release)
- 20 years from vintage
- I’ll use bottle (2) to calibrate this one, but I’m usually planning on 30+ years from vintage here.
.
NV Champagne: I have found I prefer these, and most Champagne generally, on the younger side, so that’s why you see such early windows here. As always, there are some exceptions.
- within a year of release
- 2 - 3 years after release
- within 5 years of release
And, just so it does not get lost or forgotten: I echo what Cris has said. Taste for yourself, and pay attention to what you’re drinking; writing Tasting Notes is a great way to do this. Ultimately, you will discover your own preferences, and you should tailor your cellar construction and your consumption plan in accordance with your own preferences, not the preferences of others.
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According to John Glas (what happened to that guy?),
Day 1
Day 2
Day 3
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I respectfully disagree with this. And I feel like this view can become sort of a self-fulfilling negative prophecy about the category – like if you drank all your German riesling young, then you might think that young, primary and fruit-forward is all German riesling could be. Same for California pinot.
If you mean “taking a totally uncurated random cross section of all California pinot,” maybe your comment would have more truth, but then we don’t really mean it that way when we talk about Burgundy, Bordeaux, Barolo, Champagne, etc., so I’m not sure why we would for California pinot.
Anyway, my point is less to disagree about California pinot, and more to illustrate that there are many different views about “what age is the right age” for wines, and much of that is just subjective in terms of what do you like more in a wine. Maybe people like what riesling is when it is young, I like it much more after it’s 15+ years old, and it’s just subjective tastes.
And bringing this all the way back around to the original point of the thread, that’s why it would be good to experiment with wines at widely different ages. I think a lot of people drink Sea Smoke young and say “this is just a wine about big fruit, drink it young, it’ll probably fall apart if you let it age longer.” Then you try one at 15-20 years old and would probably be surprised at how much positive evolution it has had (at least that has been my personal experience), but you might not have guessed that if you concluded you should only try those young. But then other wines you might have the opposite experience.
He’s now trolling everyone with his opinions on various FB groups.
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Of course it is!
Many years ago, I worked the tasting room for a small winery. As I had a full time job, the winery job was Saturday only. One aspect of the job was to taste every bottle before pouring for customers. Tasting the same eight wines every week was illuminating. Some wines tasted the same every time while others changed regularly. One wine in particular, the 1988 Merlot, went through three or four significant changes over the course of just a few months. One particular phase was so bad we pulled it off of the tasting table for five weeks until it returned to a better version of itself.
Years later I bought 3.5 cases of Niepoort Redoma 2001 and still have two bottles remaining. Just like the experience from the tasting room, the wine went through many changes over twenty years, most of which I would have missed if I only had a few bottles.
Those two experiences while different helped me to understand just how much some wines do change with time and most of us have no idea because most of us aren’t drinking the same wines weekly or regularly over decades. Not all wines obviously, some change more subtly and slowly with time. But I now know that I will never know since in most cases, I get only a few chances to taste them.
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Its not that simple. Too many variables including variety, maker, year, closure, cellaring conditions, personal preferences etc.
If its a dry white under a poor quality cork, I’d say taste on release, then after 1 year and then after 2 years. If Its a 2002 Clare Valley Riesling under Stelvin then taste on release, again at 15 years and then probably at 30 years, if you can only try 3 times.
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I fully agree others mileage may vary so to speak. People should follow their own palates as well as ferret out their own perceptions of wine evolution through extensive tasting. I fully expect that many folks on WBers would strongly disagree with my opinions on aging wine, in fact there are huge differences in opinions on this just within my circle of friends, family, and acquaintances. The OP asked for others’ opinions on broad guidelines. and I preambled my post as my personal rules. I feel confident in following my advice as I’ve arrived at them after trying hundreds bottles of CA pinot noirs at every possible age. Yes, some have improved but an overwhelming majority did not improve with mid- or long-term aging and many held their ground so to speak which is why I prefer to drink them in the window I mentioned while they still retain peak CA vibrancy and strength. As to “your comment would have more truth” I’ll just say that there’s no my truth and no your truth, there are facts and there are opinions and we are clearly dealing with opinions here.
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It’s a good approach. I like to buy in 4s - 1 to sample, 3 to cellar. But there are no reliable rules. Keeping an eye on this board and CT will give you a good idea when to start on your 3. For example, a few years ago I’d assumed 2010 Burgundies couldn’t possibly be in a good drinking zone, but there were a whole bunch of threads here saying otherwise, and it turned out they were right and the wines were wide open.
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I agree that extensive tasting is necessary - every varietal and region (and even sub-region) has their own ageability 9-box so to speak based on producer and vintage (low structure vintage x modern producer = short term). While it might be fair to throw out generalities, that often doesn’t hold true for all intersections of that 9-box.
I try to use those principles in buying and tasting. The longer the potential for aging, generally the more I buy and more spread out the sampling. Understanding your preferences for all of those variables is a key outcome from that hard “research” 
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Ryan –
As others have stressed, there is no simple formula.
That said, here’s a simple formula:
-
Figure how long in years from the vintage (call it X) this wine should take to fully mature to your liking (which will vary with individuals), taking into account the vintage. That collection of older wines you’ve acquired should give you an idea at what age you prefer a lot of different types of wines (allowing, of course, for possible storage variations with auction wines).
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If you’ve tasted the wine on release and have only three bottles, try another one at X/3 years, and a second at 2/3 X. The first bottle might cause you to adjust your estimate of X and 2/3 X.
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If you haven’t tasted the wine on release and have only three bottles, try one shortly after purchase. Try another at X/2 years. The first bottle might cause you to adjust when you try the second, and the second bottle might cause you to adjust your estimate of X.
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That seems like a wonderfully simple protocol to fall back on. Thanks!
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My problem with any variation on the “1 on release, 1 after XX years, and 1 at maturity” is that you get only one at maturity. And if you like mature wine, you’ve in a sense wasted two of your 3 bottles.
Anyone who has read my posts on this board knows I’m an advocate of buying more than 3 at a time of wines you know, or are pretty sure, you are going to like. That said, I don’t think it’s the way to go when you are first starting out for the most part (I actually think eveyrone, even brand newbies, should try buying a case of something affordable, and play that arc out alongside others as part of the learning process - but it shoudn’t be the norm, I agree) So how to reconcile those two ideas?
I’m going to turn things updside down and suggest not drinking any of your 3 bottles on, or soon after, release until (if??) you start buying more than 3 of things and can afford to “spend” one on a datapoint that I would argue isn’t all that useful when first starting out. Others obviously disagree, but I’d skew towards trying to get more bottles in the zone. Read here, read on CT, read reviews, and then make a stab at drinking the first bottle when you have a reasonable reason to believe it might be starting to open up and/or enter a prime drinking window. I’d start my arc there instead of on release. I’d advocate learning about that end of the curve first, with tighter focus, and then extend your learning process into the earlier years of maturation.
Basically, though, I wouldn’t worry too much about a process, to be honest. Drink and enjoy, play around, write a lot of notes to yourself. Go out and buy more of things you like. I often think that having as much input and information as we do isn’t always a good thing. It’s sometimes really fun to guess, and even to get things wrong!
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@Sarah_Kirschbaum, I think with this question, as much as the specific date ranges, I’m trying to get a better sense for how the experienced folks on this board think about cellar building and timing of samplings. I appreciate the wisdom and perspective of the philosophy you’ve so clearly described and will certainly keep it in mind.
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I’m sure it’s said somewhere upthread, but the way to (relatively) shortcut your learning is to buy wines/producers/categories you are interested in from auction or retail at older ages.
It isn’t any ironclad guarantee, because vintages are different, producer and region styles might have evolved some, etc. etc. But if you are thoughtful about which bottles and vintages you select, it can get you a long way toward understanding your personal preferences, without just buying multiples of new releases and spending the next few decades learning at what ages you like your wines (and semi-wasting lots of bottles along the way by opening them too early).
Not only do you want to learn how wines evolve and age, but you want to learn what your personal preference is. Because while wines change, it’s really up to you how much you like them at different ages.
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This needs to be repeated many times over.
Some people like very mature wines, where some prefer them when young. Both of them are correct.
For example, I like my Rieslings young, some prefer them when they have turned into a petroly mess. I’ve yet to try an aged (20+ years) Riesling I enjoy, and I’ve had a bunch where others were full of ooh’s and aah’s and I thought it was dead as a doornail.
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Exactly. I like them at both ages, but I generally much prefer the 15-20+ year old versions, even including of somewhat everyday $20 dollar type Kabinett bottles. To me, they transform from a tasty sweet green grapey beverage into a complex wine experience. But that’s a 100% subjective opinion.
That’s a great illustration. If you’re into riesling, find a few 20ish year old examples and a few 10ish year old examples, try those, try recent releases, and then you can decide whether you want to age yours or to drink them young.
Not long ago, this was very difficult to do, since mature riesling at auction and retail was hard to obtain, but I think it’s easier today. Not as easy as things like Bordeaux, but easier.
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Try to keep in mind there is no perfect formula for ‘cellar building’. Cellars get built with fits and starts. Are likely to produce regret and frustration. And then your palate shifts again. Its all part of the journey.
That’s why you will often see some of us warn new people away from jumping on a bunch of lists and buying whatever they can. The cellar is the result. Not the start.
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Man plans, God laughs.
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