What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

Tasting notes, varietals, grapes - anything related to wine
Message
Author
R Scott Hughes
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 345
Joined: August 6th, 2020, 4:22 am
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1351 Post by R Scott Hughes »

I had a 70A with dinner last night and was very pleased - much improved from the last one I opened 6-7 months ago. Excellent QPR.
R u 5 5 3 ||

User avatar
Rodrigo B
Monopole Crü
Monopole Crü
Posts: 2356
Joined: June 9th, 2020, 11:21 pm
Location: New York
Has thanked: 236 times
Been thanked: 551 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1352 Post by Rodrigo B »

Thanks for the preview. Curious to try all the lot 70 blends side by side. Been giving them a bit of time. Planning on checking on on them in the fall
B r @ g @

CT: rcb25
IG: r.c.b.25

Chris Crutchfield
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1018
Joined: February 17th, 2011, 10:49 pm
Has thanked: 208 times
Been thanked: 149 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1353 Post by Chris Crutchfield »

N.70, N.77, and N.51-54 are my dN favs so far. I think these wines are great now but will also get much better over time.

David Buck
Posts: 430
Joined: February 15th, 2015, 3:50 pm
Location: Guilford, CT
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1354 Post by David Buck »

80 got a good review yesterday...Could there actually be high end cab I can finally drink? a miracle... :-P Still might wait a year in bottle as it was bottled in Dec 20...looks good though

On the nose- Big dark fruits, dark cherries, cassis, ripe plums, dark blackberries, rich berry pie, dark chocolate, mocha, baking spices, violets, graphite, black licorice, oak, vanilla. On the palate- Big dark fruits and dark cherries, cassis and ripe plums, dark blackberries and rich berry pie, dark chocolate and mocha, baking spices and violets, graphite and black licorice, oak and a hint of vanilla on the finish. This wine is drinking with about an hour of decant time to really open up and show its stuff. This wine is drinking KILLER now but could age another 5-7 years if not long with zero problem at all

Timothy B a l l a r d
Posts: 406
Joined: August 25th, 2020, 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1355 Post by Timothy B a l l a r d »

N.192 Friday the 13th. Posted TN on CT. Unbelievable bargain of a wine. Approachable, but would prefer to wait to get this wine into the "Zone" in 3-5 years.

Donald G
Posts: 44
Joined: March 21st, 2021, 12:22 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1356 Post by Donald G »

80. Day two. this is a BIG wine! On day two, after a night in the fridge , it is a totally different wine than it was yesterday. I have not changed my mind about keeping it stored away for another two years. This is a wine with a future.
G o l d s o b e l

Marc Bonfante
Posts: 47
Joined: January 22nd, 2021, 10:27 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1357 Post by Marc Bonfante »

Billq wrote: July 17th, 2021, 1:01 pm
Timothy B a l l a r d wrote: July 15th, 2021, 10:27 pm
MatthewT wrote: July 15th, 2021, 4:53 pm #123 is so good. $10? lol. Stupid good.

(Merlot for Cab lovers)
Yes, stupid good^2.
Absolutely - sincere thanks to everyone who recommended this one, I got a case on the second offer; I've mostly stuck to the higher-end offerings so would have missed out on a fantastic wine, wish I'd picked up more (also, highly recommend a good decant).
Popped another (#123) one of these last nice. Wow what a crazy good deal at $10.00/bottle. I found with a long decant this wine open up beautifully and is even better. Very pleased overall with the quality and price point.

BjeanG
Posts: 7
Joined: August 21st, 2019, 11:17 am
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1358 Post by BjeanG »

Opened #151, 2018 Napa Valley Reserve Meritage, decanted an hour. A little disappointed. Seemed sour at the end. Tried the second night and was the same. Had a previous bottle in May and I didn't notice an improvement with this one. Still too early?

"Bottled February 19th but I think this one will come around relatively quickly"
Bjean

Larry Chmel
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 271
Joined: January 22nd, 2015, 5:30 pm
Location: Chicago NW Burbs
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1359 Post by Larry Chmel »

Had a 179 petit syrah yesterday. Wonderful right out of the bottle. IMHO a $40-50 wine.

Donald G
Posts: 44
Joined: March 21st, 2021, 12:22 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1360 Post by Donald G »

139 Horse Heaven Hills Cab
I followed Cam's advice and decanted it for an hour and re-poured, very slowly, back into the bottle, fridge over night, and poured a glass, let it stand a bit and sipped. It is a a very enjoyable wine. It is big, bold, chewy, complex and a delight to drink. Second day of drinking it was even better. The complexity of the taste was great. I read recently that Horse Heaven Hills is well regarded wine country. Learn something new everyday.
G o l d s o b e l

User avatar
cpratt
Posts: 16
Joined: December 23rd, 2010, 8:49 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1361 Post by cpratt »

John O' wrote: July 31st, 2021, 4:46 am Hmm, no comments on 153 CSM. Of the 20+ De Negoce's I've tried, hands down my favorite.
100% agree; it's a winner. From CT:
This is the vinous equivalent of a straight to DVD release that should have been a sleeper arthouse hit. CSM blends always struck me as more an Australian than American blend, but this wine shows how much we’re missing out. Rich, ripe Washington fruit, mouth-watering acidity, with dark date-sugar sucrosité and a sneaky green pepper note from what I assume is the Cabernet that added welcome complexity. It’s not sweet, don’t get me wrong, but definitely New World ripe and that’s a good thing; the oak is polite and not intrusive. I ran half the bottle through a blender which gave it a more open, plush feel; the unadulterated half of the bottle gave a more uptight, almost French, mineral vibe which was delicious in its own way. Mixing the two? Heaven.
C h r i s

ChrisWolff
Posts: 156
Joined: December 4th, 2019, 9:49 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1362 Post by ChrisWolff »

John O' wrote: August 5th, 2021, 2:44 pm
ChrisWolff wrote: August 5th, 2021, 1:04 pm Had a bottle of #75 Walla Walla Syrah and it was delicious. Casual meal with pizza and pasta. Think this is the 2nd bottle I’ve had and liked it much more than in the past. Much more of a red fruit flavor coming through, along with some savoriness and a little funk. The funk to fruit was a bit too much for me last time
gotta get me some O.G Syrah. A glaring omission in my collection.
Drank another #75 last night and today and it was awesome. Dark fruit, spice, pepper, great body. This has gone from one of my least favorite DeNegoce’s to one of my favorites in the last 2 weeks

User avatar
Eric White
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1059
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 3:28 pm
Location: Banks, OR
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 161 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1363 Post by Eric White »

N. 75 Syrah - I shoulda let it sit longer. This is quite good, but still seems very primary, needs time.

Joseph O
Posts: 16
Joined: January 30th, 2021, 11:55 am
Location: Research Triangle, NC
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1364 Post by Joseph O »

ChrisWolff wrote: August 20th, 2021, 2:39 pm
John O' wrote: August 5th, 2021, 2:44 pm
ChrisWolff wrote: August 5th, 2021, 1:04 pm Had a bottle of #75 Walla Walla Syrah and it was delicious. Casual meal with pizza and pasta. Think this is the 2nd bottle I’ve had and liked it much more than in the past. Much more of a red fruit flavor coming through, along with some savoriness and a little funk. The funk to fruit was a bit too much for me last time
gotta get me some O.G Syrah. A glaring omission in my collection.
Drank another #75 last night and today and it was awesome. Dark fruit, spice, pepper, great body. This has gone from one of my least favorite DeNegoce’s to one of my favorites in the last 2 weeks
Just wanted to pop my head up from lurking to say of the 7 Syrah’s I’ve tasted so far, #74 & #75 are the best of the bunch IMO. And #75 is available in the bottle shop for $15 whereas #88 (meh) is $14, and #109 (🤮) is $12. Not much rhyme or reason to this pricing. I can buy J. Lohr or Chateau St. Michelle syrah locally for $14 and it’s every bit as good or better than #88 and #109, but I would gladly pay $30/btl locally for a syrah as good as #75. Just my 2 cents worth. Reactivating cloaking device now…
O W E N S

User avatar
Joe Heflin
Posts: 259
Joined: June 26th, 2013, 4:49 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1365 Post by Joe Heflin »

I wanted to start a separate topic for this but do not know how. I believe my ensuing comment is relative and important. For background I have a total of 48 bottles of De Negoce coming this fall and three + cases already delivered. I am a huge fan with almost $2000 “invested” in my trust of Cameron Hughes. I am also 74 years olld and have been privileged to experience a lifetime of good taste.

As I type this I am drinking a Sanguis Bossman 2013. It is superb. Please note how I expressed this : “Sanguis Bossman….” This sounds different, looks different on the bottle than, say, De Negoce 05 (which is superb in its own right).

I have a lot of numbers coming to me. All with eloquent description but none with an identity beyond a number.

This is my problem: what I am buying (again, almost $2,000 and a multiple case experience) is delivering wine well worth its price. A true value.

But part of wine (the ‘13 Bossman I am drinking) is it’s individual identity. Not just a label with 05 or 50 or …. but a character, an identity. I am a huge fan and beneficiary of what Cameron is doing and sharing with us.

But some of his wine is so good that it needs an identity beyond a number.

As the ‘13 Sanguis Bossman perhaps an ‘18 DN (pick a name). The number just doesn’t do justice to some of the incredible wine he is delivering. Name, character have a value. I am only suggesting that there should be
more than a number to help express what we are tasting.

De Negoce 05 is not enough. There is a character, a personality when I pour for a friend.

I wanted to start this as an individual topic and do not know how. ( I am old!). But this is worth the opinions of many on this board.

User avatar
Joe Heflin
Posts: 259
Joined: June 26th, 2013, 4:49 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1366 Post by Joe Heflin »

Another perspective on this is how much is a name worth?

Without a founding name how can the wind be identified to make it “special?” It is more than just “it tastes good” or has certain qualities (unctuous, Mouth coating, jammy, Blackberry….).

Now that we are over 200 wines it is difficult to research and individual bottle (or barrel).

What kind of identity can be given to each new barrel that will identify it beyond an isolated number?

User avatar
tpetty
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 336
Joined: November 18th, 2019, 8:02 pm
Location: Quincy, IL
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1367 Post by tpetty »

I understand your point, and agree with it. Having a name - which carries history, reviewer accolades, etc has definite value. Given the choice of two equivalently priced wines, I will likely take the one with a name that I appreciate. That being said, the name does have a "relatively discrete" value with the De Negoce offerings. It is the difference between the retail price that Cameron quotes, and the price point at which he sells it. That is usually quite a discount. Varies a lot, but I think most of his offers average around the 20% point, meaning that winery name - and the prestige & trust that go with it - are worth 80% of the bottle retail price.

I'm sure this is not the economically correct way to look at it - but after a bottle of wine tonight, that is the best I can come up with!
T o d d P

User avatar
Joe Heflin
Posts: 259
Joined: June 26th, 2013, 4:49 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1368 Post by Joe Heflin »

I would share a glass with you. Actually, have.

Some of what I have coming is $30-40 a bottle (Cameron’s price). I realize this could be wine that otherwise might sell for a multiple of this. But, somehow, at a certain price point (regardless of what it “should” be selling for) it seems that there should be a separate identity for even De Negoce wine. That which is $40 a bottle (three bottle limit) can’t be lumped in with $120 a case, each identified by only a number.

There needs to be more, something to emphasize that this is special-by any standard.

User avatar
Joe Heflin
Posts: 259
Joined: June 26th, 2013, 4:49 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1369 Post by Joe Heflin »

I would share a glass with you. Actually, have.

Some of what I have coming is $30-40 a bottle (Cameron’s price). I realize this could be wine that otherwise might sell for a multiple of this. But, somehow, at a certain price point (regardless of what it “should” be selling for) it seems that there should be a separate identity for even De Negoce wine. That which is $40 a bottle (three bottle limit) can’t be lumped in with $120 a case, each identified by only a number.

There needs to be more, something to emphasize that this is special-by any standard.

NealW
Posts: 62
Joined: August 18th, 2020, 5:39 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1370 Post by NealW »

For me, I agree and disagree, there is value in wines that I bought at a winery or where I have visited that winery and have that emotional or experiential attachment too. There is also value in producers (Ridge, Bedrockl, Musar etc.) that I have a decent history of drinking consistently (or hope to be in the future) either through each vintages or through different varietals.

For many other wines however, I probably will have more of an "emotional" attachment to some of these DN wines. Meaning, for the rest I'm unlikely to drink anywhere near a case of the same wine or even just from the same producer in 5 years or so. So following the development of a DN # does replace and exceed that (although is clearly finite)
W e s s o n

User avatar
Joe Heflin
Posts: 259
Joined: June 26th, 2013, 4:49 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1371 Post by Joe Heflin »

I am probably suggesting a “platinum class” or De Negoce Hillside Select, De Negoce Yountville Estate-some other descriptive hyperbole to help distinguish that it is truly special.

Still a De Negoce number but just an added description to help set it apart, to add a bit of personality or a taste of character.

Perhaps to include Coombsville in the name of 05: De Negoce Coombsville Estate 05. Also possibly a platinum colored bar encircling the bottle to denote it is part of the Platinum or ambassador or z(pick a hyperbole) series-all to add character and underscore that indeed it is a special bottle.

Others’ thoughts?

User avatar
Bob Hoelting
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 212
Joined: January 25th, 2012, 4:18 pm
Location: Santa Ana
Has thanked: 240 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1372 Post by Bob Hoelting »

According to Cameron, he doesn’t even have time to enter his wines into the CellarTracker database so coming up with new fancy names probably won’t happen, either. Just sayin’

Chr!s G|@rn3r
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 780
Joined: November 25th, 2017, 1:29 pm
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1373 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r »

You could just write on the labels yourself.

Toby P
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 388
Joined: May 7th, 2018, 6:44 pm
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1374 Post by Toby P »

It's an interesting topic and I agree it would be nice to have different labels / branding for some of the wines. That said, 1) it would definitely require higher prices for both materials and the time / labor expense of design etc and 2) it only partially solves for the issue, i.e. you still know they are all from De Negoce so the "emotional connection" won't really vary as much from bottle to bottle just bc the label is different. Wine Access basically does this for their NDAs, not sure if it makes much of a difference to people.
P r a t t

Billq
Posts: 3
Joined: June 23rd, 2020, 10:44 am

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1375 Post by Billq »

Emotional connection aside, from a purely practical perspective the labels are nearly identical, making them difficult to identify quickly in a dim cellar, looking through shelves, etc. A larger font for varietal and ava, and a more prominent font for lot #, would make it a lot easier to find a particular wine quickly. A few different label colors to make them more easily identifiable, for region, varietal, or 'level' (or the platinum bar idea) would be nice too, none of which would add much to design cost. Especially nice if you're sharing with friends who know DN but can't keep track of 200+ numbers.
Q u e e n

Marjie K
Posts: 18
Joined: February 25th, 2021, 12:28 pm
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1376 Post by Marjie K »

Billq wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 10:49 am Emotional connection aside, from a purely practical perspective the labels are nearly identical, making them difficult to identify quickly in a dim cellar, looking through shelves, etc. A larger font for varietal and ava, and a more prominent font for lot #, would make it a lot easier to find a particular wine quickly. A few different label colors to make them more easily identifiable, for region, varietal, or 'level' (or the platinum bar idea) would be nice too, none of which would add much to design cost. Especially nice if you're sharing with friends who know DN but can't keep track of 200+ numbers.
I use a white wax marker to denote the # and variety on the bottles for just this reason! champagne.gif
Marjie Krupnick [cheers.gif]

User avatar
Randy Sanders
Posts: 29
Joined: January 4th, 2018, 6:34 pm
Location: Central NY
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1377 Post by Randy Sanders »

Marjie K wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 11:07 am
I use a white wax marker to denote the # and variety on the bottles for just this reason! champagne.gif
I agree, hard to identify, so I've got the shelves labeled.

User avatar
Joe Heflin
Posts: 259
Joined: June 26th, 2013, 4:49 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1378 Post by Joe Heflin »

Again, I really wish I knew how to post this as a separate thread.

I just finished the second day of Beckmen PMV 2016 which was an excellent $35+ Syrah that had a couple of years on it. I wish had bought more than a case.

But after a glass I poured some of the ‘18 Coombsville 05 that I mentioned upthread. I’ve had 9 or 10 of De Negoce wines snd, so far, 05 is my favorite. I am swirling it in a small fishbowl ( Schott Zweisel Tritan Diva) and sipping as I write.

It is superb. A legitimate $75+ Cabernet that simply deserves more than “05” for it’s identity.

And this is a major consideration of this topic: again, it is not just an economic value but a character, an identity to the wine. Yes, I can drink well for $30 or 25 or 40 or more. But what I am drinking has a unique character that makes it special

SOME OF HIS WINE IS MORE THAN A NUMBER. An isolated number that people on here try to guess the vineyard and the producer. But why? Because it is special and they are guessing who may have been responsible for their special glass, their special wine.

For some of Cameron Hughes’ wine, De Negoce, it is more than a number. Express the character, the effort snd the taste that went into making it.

As I sip the 05 a number is not enough.

Cameron, your thoughts?

User avatar
Rich Brown
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4466
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 3:38 pm
Location: Phoenix
Has thanked: 621 times
Been thanked: 282 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1379 Post by Rich Brown »

Joe Heflin wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 4:56 pm Again, I really wish I knew how to post this as a separate thread.

I just finished the second day of Beckmen PMV 2016 which was an excellent $35+ Syrah that had a couple of years on it. I wish had bought more than a case.

But after a glass I poured some of the ‘18 Coombsville 05 that I mentioned upthread. I’ve had 9 or 10 of De Negoce wines snd, so far, 05 is my favorite. I am swirling it in a small fishbowl ( Schott Zweisel Tritan Diva) and sipping as I write.

It is superb. A legitimate $75+ Cabernet that simply deserves more than “05” for it’s identity.

And this is a major consideration of this topic: again, it is not just an economic value but a character, an identity to the wine. Yes, I can drink well for $30 or 25 or 40 or more. But what I am drinking has a unique character that makes it special

SOME OF HIS WINE IS MORE THAN A NUMBER. An isolated number that people on here try to guess the vineyard and the producer. But why? Because it is special and they are guessing who may have been responsible for their special glass, their special wine.

For some of Cameron Hughes’ wine, De Negoce, it is more than a number. Express the character, the effort snd the taste that went into making it.

As I sip the 05 a number is not enough.

Cameron, your thoughts?
First off, I'm glad you're digging the wines!

But to your point about making the labels special to 'express the effort and taste that went into making it', doesn't that pretty much fly in the face of the whole value prop? Cameron is sourcing bulk juice from wineries at a low price and agreeing to not mention the actual name of the winery (for obvious reasons). He then does everything possible to keep his operation as efficient as possible in order to pass those savings onto you, and making custom labels would be an added cost which would then incresse the prices that you are paying for the wine. So since he can't list the name of the winery and it wouldn't make sense to create custom labels for each wine (plus, I'm sure he believes/wants us to believe that they're all 'special' in some way), I'm not sure what you would suggest.

Plus, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around what having 'special labels' would add here? Is it more to show some respect for the wineries that produced the wine (who he can't name), or just so we the consumer would feel that they're more 'special'?

My apologies if I'm compeltley missing the point of your post, but would be interested in hearing your feedback [cheers.gif]

User avatar
Eric White
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1059
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 3:28 pm
Location: Banks, OR
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 161 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1380 Post by Eric White »

Thought I'd check in on N. 11 2017 Cab tonight - short decant, very reticent on the nose at first, but is starting to come along now with air and as it warms up. Really nice core of sweet cassis, cherries, spice notes. Pretty tannic, but also rich and plush. I'll hold some back to try again tomorrow, but this is drinking well now, but I expect it will continue to improve.

User avatar
Bob Hoelting
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 212
Joined: January 25th, 2012, 4:18 pm
Location: Santa Ana
Has thanked: 240 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1381 Post by Bob Hoelting »

159 Rutherford Blend was absolutely scrumptious tonight. Best of the 16 dN’s I’ve had

User avatar
Joe Heflin
Posts: 259
Joined: June 26th, 2013, 4:49 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1382 Post by Joe Heflin »

“Bulk wine.” Is that how everyone on this thread thinks of De Negoce whether it is $10 or $40 a bottle? “Bulk wine.”

Somehow for those who have planted, grown and harvested grapes while feared storms, heat and frost “bulk wine” does not capture the character and effort that helped those grapes grow. And the eine (perhaps the unctuous nectar) that resulted.

Serious: I want the best wine that I can get for a price. But not at the expense of it being merely bulk wine.”

Bill B
Posts: 9
Joined: March 2nd, 2021, 11:08 am
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1383 Post by Bill B »

Joe Heflin wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 4:56 pm Again, I really wish I knew how to post this as a separate thread.

I just finished the second day of Beckmen PMV 2016 which was an excellent $35+ Syrah that had a couple of years on it. I wish had bought more than a case.

But after a glass I poured some of the ‘18 Coombsville 05 that I mentioned upthread. I’ve had 9 or 10 of De Negoce wines snd, so far, 05 is my favorite. I am swirling it in a small fishbowl ( Schott Zweisel Tritan Diva) and sipping as I write.

It is superb. A legitimate $75+ Cabernet that simply deserves more than “05” for it’s identity.

And this is a major consideration of this topic: again, it is not just an economic value but a character, an identity to the wine. Yes, I can drink well for $30 or 25 or 40 or more. But what I am drinking has a unique character that makes it special

SOME OF HIS WINE IS MORE THAN A NUMBER. An isolated number that people on here try to guess the vineyard and the producer. But why? Because it is special and they are guessing who may have been responsible for their special glass, their special wine.

For some of Cameron Hughes’ wine, De Negoce, it is more than a number. Express the character, the effort snd the taste that went into making it.

As I sip the 05 a number is not enough.

Cameron, your thoughts?
I think Joe is suggesting that Cam do something along the lines of what Trader Joes does in having Trader Joes, Trader Joes Reserve, Platinum Reserve and Diamond Reserve wines. This would designate the wines to some degree and better ones would likely have more appeal at parties and as gifts but that might not be the goal of de Negoce. There are positives and negatives to these designations.
Burchett

User avatar
Rich Brown
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4466
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 3:38 pm
Location: Phoenix
Has thanked: 621 times
Been thanked: 282 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1384 Post by Rich Brown »

Joe Heflin wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 6:38 pm “Bulk wine.” Is that how everyone on this thread thinks of De Negoce whether it is $10 or $40 a bottle? “Bulk wine.”

Somehow for those who have planted, grown and harvested grapes while feared storms, heat and frost “bulk wine” does not capture the character and effort that helped those grapes grow. And the eine (perhaps the unctuous nectar) that resulted.

Serious: I want the best wine that I can get for a price. But not at the expense of it being merely bulk wine.”
I mean, I don't want to ruin your enjoyment or any of the romanticism behind the wines....but that's what this is (for the most part). Cameron literally mentions bulk wine in most of his descriptions.

But honestly, I don't think that should really matter, should it? You're getting wines that you really enjoy for a great price. Win/win!

If you are more drawn to the 'story' behind the wines and the people making them (not to worry, id say most peeps on this board are to some degree or another), then you might prefer buying from wineries directly. The trade off is that you have to pay more. And sometimes.....a LOT more ;)

User avatar
Rich Brown
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4466
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 3:38 pm
Location: Phoenix
Has thanked: 621 times
Been thanked: 282 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1385 Post by Rich Brown »

Bill B wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 7:50 pm
Joe Heflin wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 4:56 pm Again, I really wish I knew how to post this as a separate thread.

I just finished the second day of Beckmen PMV 2016 which was an excellent $35+ Syrah that had a couple of years on it. I wish had bought more than a case.

But after a glass I poured some of the ‘18 Coombsville 05 that I mentioned upthread. I’ve had 9 or 10 of De Negoce wines snd, so far, 05 is my favorite. I am swirling it in a small fishbowl ( Schott Zweisel Tritan Diva) and sipping as I write.

It is superb. A legitimate $75+ Cabernet that simply deserves more than “05” for it’s identity.

And this is a major consideration of this topic: again, it is not just an economic value but a character, an identity to the wine. Yes, I can drink well for $30 or 25 or 40 or more. But what I am drinking has a unique character that makes it special

SOME OF HIS WINE IS MORE THAN A NUMBER. An isolated number that people on here try to guess the vineyard and the producer. But why? Because it is special and they are guessing who may have been responsible for their special glass, their special wine.

For some of Cameron Hughes’ wine, De Negoce, it is more than a number. Express the character, the effort snd the taste that went into making it.

As I sip the 05 a number is not enough.

Cameron, your thoughts?
I think Joe is suggesting that Cam do something along the lines of what Trader Joes does in having Trader Joes, Trader Joes Reserve, Platinum Reserve and Diamond Reserve wines. This would designate the wines to some degree and better ones would likely have more appeal at parties and as gifts but that might not be the goal of de Negoce. There are positives and negatives to these designations.
Ahhh, I see what you're saying. But I don't think that works as well here, as Cameron positions de Negoce as sourcing only premium wine.....which is really (to me) the only main difference between this venture and the old Cameron Hughes wines. Well....that and the pre-buying model which was a brilliant call on his part in regards to cash flow. So if you start differentiating between the offerings with multiple 'tiers', you run the risk of not being able to move the 'lesser' wines. Since he doesn't seem to have much trouble selling the wines as they are currently marketed.....why take that risk.

Timothy B a l l a r d
Posts: 406
Joined: August 25th, 2020, 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1386 Post by Timothy B a l l a r d »

N.34 Bennett Valley Merlot over the weekend. Posted TN on CT...a "Merlot Lover's Merlot" is all I can say. Needs a 24 hour decant of 2-3 more years in bottle to get this beauty to shine. Marty Mathis (Kathryn Kennedy fame & Lateral brand) was my neighbor for decades, a self proclaimed Merlot Maker too. It's truly a shame that California Merlots just don't get their due respect. This N.34 brings respect to California Merlot. Fantasic example and deal provided for those fortunate to get this lot.

Mikko Tuomi
Posts: 67
Joined: January 21st, 2021, 9:00 pm
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1387 Post by Mikko Tuomi »

Past few days, #179 Petit Sirah. Good stuff, perfect cellar defender. Open 24hrs prior if you can.
Flushes down the disappointment of missing out on past few offers, especially the #11.

Donald G
Posts: 44
Joined: March 21st, 2021, 12:22 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1388 Post by Donald G »

Penfolds and a number of other sellers of wine use BIN numbers rather than names to denote a particular bottling. They have wines that sell in the $$$ teens to 80s and the labels look the same. The reputation of the bottler/seller and the descriptions they provide are the guides to the relative value. I trust Cam. We may not always agree about a wine, a matter of taste, but he does not misrepresent wines and a number is as good as it gets. I refer to the wines I am drinking, by what I know of them, such as Horse Heaven Hills or Adelaide AVA. The origins are interesting, but the seller has to be your contact and the place to put your trust. Names can be a romantic element in the experience of acquiring a wine, but how much is it worth?
G o l d s o b e l

bwolff
Posts: 17
Joined: January 3rd, 2021, 11:14 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1389 Post by bwolff »

Donald G wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 10:20 pm Names can be a romantic element in the experience of acquiring a wine, but how much is it worth?
There is a saying that "you can't drink the label." Out of the 29 DN wines that I've bought, I have a fairly good idea, albeit not certainty, where all but three came from, thanks in large part to the members of this board. Some of the wineries I had not previously heard of. That itself was a great learning experience. Others I had not only heard of, but had visited and purchased their wine (and will continue to do so). But to think that I got name that wine for only $XX, well, pinch me.
B e r t

ChrisWolff
Posts: 156
Joined: December 4th, 2019, 9:49 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1390 Post by ChrisWolff »

Joe Heflin wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 6:38 pm “Bulk wine.” Is that how everyone on this thread thinks of De Negoce whether it is $10 or $40 a bottle? “Bulk wine.”

Somehow for those who have planted, grown and harvested grapes while feared storms, heat and frost “bulk wine” does not capture the character and effort that helped those grapes grow. And the eine (perhaps the unctuous nectar) that resulted.

Serious: I want the best wine that I can get for a price. But not at the expense of it being merely bulk wine.”
Yes it’s bulk wine, that’s the whole point

Go to the main ‘Wine Talk’ page and click ‘New Topic’ at the top. Thanks

User avatar
Cameron Hughes
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 762
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 12:51 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1391 Post by Cameron Hughes »

Joe Heflin wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 6:38 pm “Bulk wine.” Is that how everyone on this thread thinks of De Negoce whether it is $10 or $40 a bottle? “Bulk wine.”

Somehow for those who have planted, grown and harvested grapes while feared storms, heat and frost “bulk wine” does not capture the character and effort that helped those grapes grow. And the eine (perhaps the unctuous nectar) that resulted.

Serious: I want the best wine that I can get for a price. But not at the expense of it being merely bulk wine.”
Bulk wine is just semantics Joe...I too wish we had a better term of art for it as well. Maybe vin de negoce or just negoce wine.

Anyhow, I am not sure I understand what you said above either, actually, do you merely wish for a better term of art or are you saying you won't buy a negociant wine?

User avatar
Joe Heflin
Posts: 259
Joined: June 26th, 2013, 4:49 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1392 Post by Joe Heflin »

Thank you, Chris Wolff-just saw the “new topic” which I could not find several days ago.

Rich Brown, I have been on the Cayuse list for almost ten years, Leonetti dating to the early ‘90’s, Saxum and a dozen others. I have also been buying both Cameron’s and Kirkland’s wines since soon after either started. As I type this I am looking at an empty bottle of ‘85 Groth Reserve (Parker 100 points) which is next to a signed magnum of Dal Forno ‘97 amarone that I bought at Romano’s and opened on my 65th birthday. I am now 74 and fully retired from my career. I am also a retired Beard panelist which dates to my Chowhound days starting in ‘99 or so. My family has been in the restaurant industry dating to the ‘1930’s in Washington D. C. This means that I have been far too opinionated for far too long. And I have also been fortunate to visit hundreds of vineyards from Kelowna to Soave. I spent 35 years in the amusement industry which allowed me to heavily travel all of North America and Europe. I’ve been fortunate to explore the source of a lot of wine I’ve had. I also think I’ve been on here for eight years but have posted only infrequently.

Sincerely sorry for my ad nauseum verbiage but, yes, I have bought from wineries before.

I am old. And have drank well while also fully appreciating Cameron’s efforts. Please note my rave about his 05-I have been there since the start.

Cameron, all I am suggesting is that several of the wines you are presenting now are more expensive and, for several, have purchase limits. (I have four cases for Fall delivery.) I fully understand that $40 wine is really a $150-200 one and you are enabling me to enjoy some seriously good efforts for a fraction of what otherwise might be it’s price. I deeply appreciate this.

I am only suggesting that at a certain level there might be a consideration of noting that the particular wine is even more special.

Anyway, I have probably posted too much and fully understand (as my wife would say) that I now need to shut up. But I am beneficiary of your efforts and time and sincerely thank you for allowing me to drink well at a fraction of what it might otherwise cost.

I am a huge fan of your’s. Not a critic.

User avatar
Cameron Hughes
BerserkerBusiness
BerserkerBusiness
Posts: 762
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 12:51 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 119 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1393 Post by Cameron Hughes »

Joe Heflin wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 4:05 pm Thank you, Chris Wolff-just saw the “new topic” which I could not find several days ago.

Rich Brown, I have been on the Cayuse list for almost ten years, Leonetti dating to the early ‘90’s, Saxum and a dozen others. I have also been buying both Cameron’s and Kirkland’s wines since soon after either started. As I type this I am looking at an empty bottle of ‘85 Groth Reserve (Parker 100 points) which is next to a signed magnum of Dal Forno ‘97 amarone that I bought at Romano’s and opened on my 65th birthday. I am now 74 and fully retired from my career. I am also a retired Beard panelist which dates to my Chowhound days starting in ‘99 or so. My family has been in the restaurant industry dating to the ‘1930’s in Washington D. C. This means that I have been far too opinionated for far too long. And I have also been fortunate to visit hundreds of vineyards from Kelowna to Soave. I spent 35 years in the amusement industry which allowed me to heavily travel all of North America and Europe. I’ve been fortunate to explore the source of a lot of wine I’ve had. I also think I’ve been on here for eight years but have posted only infrequently.

I am old. And have drank well while also fully appreciating Cameron’s efforts. Please note my rave about his 05-I have been there since the start.

Cameron, all I am suggesting is that several of the wines you are presenting now are more expensive and, for several, have purchase limits. (I have four cases for Fall delivery.) I fully understand that $40 wine is really a $150-200 one and you are allowing me to enjoy some seriously good efforts for a fraction of what otherwise might be it’s price. I deeply appreciate this.

I am only suggesting that at a certain level there might be a consideration of noting that the particular wine is even more special.

Anyway, I have probably posted too much and fully understand (as my wife would say) that I now need to shut up. But I am beneficiary of your efforts and time and sincerely thank you for allowing me to drink well at a fraction of what it might otherwise cost.

I am a huge fan of your’s. Not a critic.
hey Joe - no worries, I figured as much.

Brian_K
Posts: 30
Joined: October 1st, 2020, 5:22 am
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1394 Post by Brian_K »

N.89 (Walla Walla Cab) tonight. I don’t do TN’S, but this is tasty, and ready to drink IMO. Has that classic Walla Walla gravelly note…
K @ y

User avatar
Eric White
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 1059
Joined: January 28th, 2009, 3:28 pm
Location: Banks, OR
Has thanked: 89 times
Been thanked: 161 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1395 Post by Eric White »

Eric White wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 5:41 pm Thought I'd check in on N. 11 2017 Cab tonight - short decant, very reticent on the nose at first, but is starting to come along now with air and as it warms up. Really nice core of sweet cassis, cherries, spice notes. Pretty tannic, but also rich and plush. I'll hold some back to try again tomorrow, but this is drinking well now, but I expect it will continue to improve.
Remaining bottle (probably 2/3) tonight - aromatically, this is just stunning now. Complex and inviting, with layers of dark fruits and spice. Softer and rounder on the palate, but still somewhat tannic on the finish. Really, really nice, and will clearly continue to improve. Happy camper here.

User avatar
Rich Brown
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4466
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 3:38 pm
Location: Phoenix
Has thanked: 621 times
Been thanked: 282 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1396 Post by Rich Brown »

Joe Heflin wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 4:05 pm Thank you, Chris Wolff-just saw the “new topic” which I could not find several days ago.

Rich Brown, I have been on the Cayuse list for almost ten years, Leonetti dating to the early ‘90’s, Saxum and a dozen others. I have also been buying both Cameron’s and Kirkland’s wines since soon after either started. As I type this I am looking at an empty bottle of ‘85 Groth Reserve (Parker 100 points) which is next to a signed magnum of Dal Forno ‘97 amarone that I bought at Romano’s and opened on my 65th birthday. I am now 74 and fully retired from my career. I am also a retired Beard panelist which dates to my Chowhound days starting in ‘99 or so. My family has been in the restaurant industry dating to the ‘1930’s in Washington D. C. This means that I have been far too opinionated for far too long. And I have also been fortunate to visit hundreds of vineyards from Kelowna to Soave. I spent 35 years in the amusement industry which allowed me to heavily travel all of North America and Europe. I’ve been fortunate to explore the source of a lot of wine I’ve had. I also think I’ve been on here for eight years but have posted only infrequently.

Sincerely sorry for my ad nauseum verbiage but, yes, I have bought from wineries before.

I am old. And have drank well while also fully appreciating Cameron’s efforts. Please note my rave about his 05-I have been there since the start.

Cameron, all I am suggesting is that several of the wines you are presenting now are more expensive and, for several, have purchase limits. (I have four cases for Fall delivery.) I fully understand that $40 wine is really a $150-200 one and you are enabling me to enjoy some seriously good efforts for a fraction of what otherwise might be it’s price. I deeply appreciate this.

I am only suggesting that at a certain level there might be a consideration of noting that the particular wine is even more special.

Anyway, I have probably posted too much and fully understand (as my wife would say) that I now need to shut up. But I am beneficiary of your efforts and time and sincerely thank you for allowing me to drink well at a fraction of what it might otherwise cost.

I am a huge fan of your’s. Not a critic.
Great post Joe! And my apologies, I mistakenly assumed that you didn't realize de Negoce was bulk wine based on your post, but clearly you fully understand the model (and from the sound of it, could teach me quite a bit about wine and food [cheers.gif] )

User avatar
Joe Heflin
Posts: 259
Joined: June 26th, 2013, 4:49 pm
Location: Reston, Virginia
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1397 Post by Joe Heflin »

Thank you, Rich-much appreciated.

If we were in person I’d be topping off your glass…

User avatar
Gray G
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 734
Joined: August 20th, 2009, 10:25 am
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1398 Post by Gray G »

78
very good!
my friends call me Gary, so much time, so little wine, Albanista, K Vinters rocks! MCK, Cattle King, love Gri3v3 Family wines Double Eagle baby! flavors please, non-religious freedom :) egalitarian, non-socialist, non-ITB, paid subscriber of online chat, Going Beserk everyday! "life's not black and white but black and grey"- Graham Greene

User avatar
Rich Brown
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 4466
Joined: January 5th, 2015, 3:38 pm
Location: Phoenix
Has thanked: 621 times
Been thanked: 282 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1399 Post by Rich Brown »

Joe Heflin wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 6:04 pm Thank you, Rich-much appreciated.

If we were in person I’d be topping off your glass…
That would be awesome Joe - let me know if you're ever in AZ. First glass is on me for sure [cheers.gif]

User avatar
timmy roos
GCC Member
GCC Member
Posts: 985
Joined: March 1st, 2011, 1:39 pm
Location: CA
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: What de Négoce wine are you drinking tonight?

#1400 Post by timmy roos »

In response to the upthread “special cuvees “ I do believe cam has placed special attention to round numbers(100 or even 40 for that matter) and I think is wise to do so going forward
Things are getting funny these day

Post Reply

Return to “Wine Talk”