You’re quarreling with the premise. Ryan asked for advice based on his not wanting to buy more than three bottles until he is more confident about his preferences – a sensible approach.
In general:
- Drink different stuff
- Read
- Do what you like
But 3 depends on 2 (and 1), and I find it fun and helpful to read about how others do it. So, nice thread.
No John. I’m not.
I argued against drinking the first of your 3 on release or shortly thereafter. In fact, I allowed as how it is perfectly reasonable to only buy a few when starting out, though I think more has many benefits and is my preference. My suggestion was to drink the first of your three when notes are suggesting it’s entering a drinking window, rather than too close to release.
2 Likes
@Steve_Costigan, do you think this table roughly approximates your recommended sample ages? I cross referenced with a couple of vintage charts to translate into a set of specific vintages that could be used as an orientation to each region if opened this year. Please let me know if the 4-sample orientation below seems like a decent place to start for an introduction to each region / style, with the caveat understood that these would follow your specific preferences.
Region Sampling Schedule (Years)
| Region | Varietal | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bordeaux (Right Bank) | Red Bordeaux Blend | 4 - 6 | 10 | 20 | 30 |
| California | Cab | 6 | 10 | 15 | 20 |
| California | Pinot Noir | Release | 3 | 5 | 8 |
| California | Zin Blend | Release | 3 | 5 | 8 |
| California | Syrah (Fruit-forward) | Release | 3 | 5 | |
| California | Syrah (Savory) | Release | 3 | 7 | 12 |
| Chateauneuf-du-Pape | GSM | 3 | 8 | 10 | 12 - 15 |
| Oregon | Pinot Noir (Fruit-forward) | Release | 3 | 5 | |
| Oregon | Pinot Noir (Structured) | Release | 3 | 8 | 15 |
| Washington | Syrah (Fruit-forward) | Release | 3 | 5 | |
| Washington | Syrah (Savory) | Release | 3 | 7 | 12 |
| Bordeaux | White Bordeaux Blend | < 5 | 8 - 10 | 15 | 25 |
| Northern Rhone | Northern Rhone White Blend | < 5 | 8 - 10 | 15 | 25 |
Region Vintage Orientation for 2025
| Region | Varietal | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bordeaux (Right Bank) | Red Bordeaux Blend | 2020 (93 WS) | 2015 / 2016 (97 / 94 WS) | 2005 (97 WS) | 1995 (95 WS) |
| California (Napa) | Cab | 2019 (96 WS) | 2016 (98 WS) | 2010 (96 WS) | 2006 (95 WS) |
| California | Pinot Noir | 2023 | 2022 (92 WS) | 2021 (96 WS) | 2016 (92 WS) |
| California | Zin Blend | 2023 | 2022 (92–95 WS) | 2021 (95 WS) | 2016 (92 WS) |
| California | Syrah (Fruit-forward) | 2023 | 2022 (91 WE) | 2020 (90 WE) | |
| California | Syrah (Savory) | 2023 | 2022 (91 WE) | 2018 (91 WE) | 2013 (91 WE) |
| Chateauneuf-du-Pape | GSM | 2022 (95 WS) | 2017 (92 WS) | 2015 (97 WS) | 2010 (98 WS) |
| Oregon | Pinot Noir (Fruit-forward) | 2023 | 2022 | 2019 (97 WS) | |
| Oregon | Pinot Noir (Structured) | 2023 | 2022 | 2017 (95 WS) | 2010 (94 WS) |
| Washington | Syrah (Fruit-forward) | 2023 | 2021 (93 WS) | 2019 (94 WS) | |
| Washington | Syrah (Savory) | 2023 | 2021 (93 WS) | 2018 (93 WS) | 2012 (95 WS) |
| Bordeaux | White Bordeaux Blend | 2021 (95 WE) | 2016 (95 WE) | 2010 (95 WE) | 2000 (94 WE) |
| Northern Rhone | White Northern Rhone Blend | 2020 (96 WS) | 2015 (99 WS) | 2010 (98 WS) | 1999 (96 WS) |
I don’t think there are any 2024 wines for sale yet, I’d say release means 2022 or 2023 at this point in time.
1 Like
Thanks, I’ll update it to 2023 for now.
Better to be approximately right than exactly wrong…
3 Likes
Indeed, especially at $90 / sample 
I’d reconsider the timing for the first Chateauneuf-du-Pape. In general, I do like them with plenty of age, but if you’re willing to check in on other regions/varieties closer to release I so no reason not to do the same here.
I base this on having spent a week tasting there last year, across 10+ producers. All except one (Mont Olivet, which was a wall of tannin) was drinking well on what they had open (usually '22s, sometimes 21s and 20s). It kind of blew my mind how drinkable they were really, given that I’m someone who on paper likes wines with way more age. There were tannins, but they were in check, and the fruit was just right as well.
2 Likes
Makes sense to me, thanks! We have a little more room to explore with the 4 samples as well. I’ve updated the tables.
@Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m , same question for you. Do you feel that this is a reasonable approximation of your recommendation for sampling schedule and does the below set of vintages seem to provide a decent tour of each region if opened this year? Feel free to recommend a fourth sample for each if you like. Sorry for changing the parameters of the question on you!
Region Sampling Schedule (Years)
| Region | Varietal | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bordeaux (Left Bank) | Red Bordeaux Blend | 10 | 20 | 30 | |
| Germany | Riesling (Kabinett) | Release | 5 | 10 | |
| Germany | Riesling (Spatlese) | < 3 | 15 | 20 | |
| Champagne | NV | Release | 2 - 3 | 5 |
Region Vintage Orientation for 2025
| Region | Varietal | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bordeaux (Left Bank) | Red Bordeaux Blend | 2016 (97 WS) | 2005 (98 WS) | 1995 (95 WS) | |
| Germany | Riesling (Kabinett) | 2023 | 2020 (94 WS) | 2015 (96 WS) | |
| Germany | Riesling (Spatlese) | 2022 (93 WS) | 2009 (97 WS) | 2005 (98 WS) | |
| Champagne | NV | 2023 | 2022 | 2020 |
I think those are good approaches subject, of course, to adjustments based on your impressions of the evolution of individual wines and preferences. From a practical stand point when I hit the point where I had too many wines on hand, like many here end up, I tended to open a lot fewer bottles on release because I had to choose between those vs. opening older ones that may slip beyond my preferred windows and tended to chose the latter.
1 Like
Thanks so much! I’ll probably get started with the Bordeaux-oriented tours because I have a Bordeaux-focused tasting this summer for which I’m eager to have a bit more context. I’m very curious to see how many of these orientations I can, practically-speaking, tackle in a given year.
1 Like
Yeah, you read me correctly.
Here’s what I would do with the bottom portion of your post, if opening this year:
Region Vintage Orientation for 2025
| Region | Varietal | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bordeaux (Left Bank) | Red Bordeaux Blend | 2014 or 2019 | 2000 or 2001 | '89, '90, '95, or '96 | 1982 |
| Germany | Riesling (Kabinett) | 2023 | 2019 | 2013 or 2015 | 2001 or 2010 |
| Germany | Riesling (Spatlese) | 2019 | 2009 or 2010 | 2001 or 2002 | |
| Champagne | NV | 2023 | 2021 or 2022 | 2019 | 2012 or 2013 or 2014 |
I hand-picked particular vintages for tasting this year — tried to pick vintages that would both be showing well now and would provide meaningful contrast to the other three or two bottles. I didn’t do a 4th bottle for Spatlese not because there shouldn’t be a fourth bottle — there should (moreso than Kabinett and NV Champagne, imo) — but rather because my pre-2001 experience is so limited that I don’t feel comfortable making general vintage calls as I did elsewhere in this chart. But definitely find yourself an old Spatlese to try. Columns 3 and 4, in particular, kind of require a fairly high-quality wine; Columns 1 and 2 will see you have success with a wider range of selections.
1 Like
This is fantastically helpful, thank you so much!
I look forward to reading about any of these tastings you might put together!
Of note, and I should have put this at the end of my prior post: for the Bdx Left Bank column 2, you would be best served to stick with a fairly high-quality wine — either a classed growth, or one of the best non-classed growths. Also: the 2000 and 2001 vintages have very different personalities, with each being attractive in their own ways. 2000 is a bigger, more complete, vintage, and those wines are aging much more slowly than 2001s, in general. Once you start narrowing things down to specific wines, the best thing you can do is look here and on Cellartracker for up-to-date wine-specific input on how they’re currently drinking.
1 Like
I may have actually gotten lucky here with my previous, somewhat more random, drink-now focused case purchase via WineBid:
Yeah, maybe. Recent CT notes from folks I trust the most (those whom I’ve marked as a Favorite Taster (old CT) or of whom I am a Fan (new CT)) aren’t exactly glowing. I’d tee-up that 2000 for consumption sooner rather than later.
1 Like
Thanks for the heads up, I’ll open it ASAP.
And that was exactly my suggestion if he’s tasted the wine on release. If he hasn’t and he really wants to learn about how the wines evolve, I think it’s important to try one on release rather than simply relying on notes (which are almost always all over the place).