I wonder if I read this in Kermit Lynch’s wonderful book Adventures Along the Wine Route, which I think was first published in the 1980s or so. I guess the purchase of Chene Vert would have been kind of newish at the time he wrote the book.
Anyone who has not read Adventures Along the Wine Route should do so immediately. It is pretty dated by now, but it is much more of a wine philosophy book than a buyer’s guide, so I don’t think date matters that much. I think a newer edition came out some time ago, but I don’t think the book changed all that much. My favorite wine book that I have ever read, by a good margin, although I do like George Taber’s Judgment in Paris, which contains a fascinating history of the wine industry in California.
In any case, the couple of times I have had Joguet Dioterie with a good bit of age on it (I think from the late 1980s) they were quite good.
I was inclined to go out and get some of this wine, but then saw that it’s showing Cuban tobacco. I’m really more of a South Carolina tobacco guy, so will pass.
In terms of history, location, orientation and timing of harvest the two sites couldn’t be more different. But if I were to put my finger on one factor that puts Dioterie above Chêne Vert it is the long association between domaine and vineyard. In a way, Joguet is Dioterie; when Charles came back to Sazilly from Paris in 1957 after the death of his father the family’s principal vineyard was Dioterie. It was once a true clos, and Charles even set about rebuilding some of the walls at one point. Today it is the site of the Joguet winemaking facilities, including grape reception, a conveyor-belt sorting table (you might be surprised at the famous names in Chinon that don’t even use a sorting table) cuverie and barrel cellars.
It was between 1972 and 1976 that Charles expanded the domaine, and as already noted by Robert it was at the end of this period that he bought the Clos du Chêne Vert. It was apparently growing wild and required a lot of work to make it good. Being located on the opposite bank of the Vienne, I think it will always be the ‘odd one out’ in the portfolio. Much further from the cellars, and always the first of all the vineyards to be picked.
To my palate (and I am sure there will be differing opinions on this) quality at Charles Joguet has been up and down over the years I have followed the domaine, with three periods of high-quality with intervening dips, and the third of these three periods is now, with Kevin Fontaine making the wines. Quality has been superb (in the right vintages), and when I last tasted the 2010 Dioterie - which was in 2020 - I thought it was stunning.
I agree, Joguet has been up and down over the decades. And it has gotten pricey. That makes it a deliberate buy for me, unlike Baudry, which is an automatic but for me in every vintage.
I think you can discern that I was not wowed by this 2010, unlike my recent experience with the 2009:
The rest will slumber in storage for a spell, as I move a 2005 forward.
Ok obviously not Chris - I’m taller, decidedly better looking, and as we all know, a much clunkier palate and a lower wine IQ. That said, I concur with you on the ABV, it is almost always higher in the years that I buy, which do admittedly tend to be the better years in Chinon. I think the 2005 Dioterie was like 14.5%, and it shows every single bit of that. The Kermit Lynch website, I seem to recall it mentioning that this is the last vineyard picked at the domain every year, and because of the sun exposure, Chene Vert is the first. I do not know if that is because of how long it takes the specific vineyard to achieve phenolic ripeness, or they literally harvest later to achieve a larger scale wine. I’ll leave that to Chris.
@Robert.A.Jr In regards to Clos Chêne Vert, a couple of years ago some of us were egging you on to go back and reconsider 2003. Since then did you ever try it? My last bottle will be consumed this coming Fall or winter with some sort of hunk of meat.
I had such a string of bad luck with 2003 generally, and in particular with the Dioterie, that I never took the flyer. Not the easiest wine to find, in any event. Really psyched that it has shown so well for you, it is my favorite Cuvee.
“Ok obviously not Chris - I’m taller, decidedly better looking, and as we all know, a much clunkier palate and a lower wine IQ” - I’m sure you’re right on the first two.
Agree that the higher alcohols in Dioterie reflect later picking; Chêne Vert is always first picked, before all the left-bank fruit, while Dioterie is last to be picked. Despite its left-bank north-facing position, the difference allows the ABV to go that high.
“And what were the other two good periods that you mention?”
There is obviously a way to quote posts as others seem to manage it but it currently escapes me!
My response to your question might generate some debate as I know that this is not a universally held view of the domaine’s history, but I see it like this: Quality was high under Joguet himself during the 1980s, and nosedived during the 1990s after he departed*. For me the 1990s were disappointing here; quality in good vintages such as 1996 and 1997 was not what it should have been. Things picked up when François-Xavier Barc took on the winemaking role, suddenly for me Joguet was good again, this was 2003-2005. He only stayed a few years before departing, after which there was a bit of a wobble, which I put down to Kevin Fontaine finding his feet but it may have been amplified by lesser vintages, 2006, 2007 and 2008 not really favourable for Cabernet Franc in Touraine. After 2009 we entered a new era, again perhaps amplified by stronger vintages for the reds.
As I said this is not a view that will be met with universal agreement. I know some continued to rave about the wines of the 1990s, including 1996 and 1997, and it’s clear some don’t like 2003 & 2005 in the way I do (although I haven’t tasted 2003 for may years, to be honest).
*On Charles’ story, despite statements I have heard within the past year or two Charles did not die; he retired and returned to his first love, painting, as he had previously studied at the Académie des Beaux Arts in Paris. When I last spoke to Anne-Charlotte Genet which was last year he was alive and well (well into his 90s), living in Sazilly near the domaine, and actively painting.
@Chris_Kissack What a fascinating post. Really enjoyed reading about your take on Joguet history. Thank you sir!
@Robert.A.Jr crack me up every time. Never dissapoint me. You were the one who opened the Loire door for me so I’m always appreciative of your tasting notes and other posts.
Have you gents had the 2010 Joguet Clos du Chêne Vert lately by any chance? I know it’s probably still very young, but was curious where it was at this stage.
I’ve seen the '05 Dioterie come across auction blocks a couple times in the past few months. I was initially tempted, but too many CT commentators had thoughts/feelings that mirror A1fert’s, so I passed.
@Chris thanks for the historical context, very rich!
Re 05s, opened an 05 within the last few months after opening one in '19 and agree that it’s bruising but approachable with air. Best sips were the last.
I have a buddy who has a bit of an Alfert palate (is this a thing?) slated to visit and I’m going to open it for him. Will report back then.
