Gilman says start drinking in 2020. Though he did say through 2060! He scored it a 95.
This wine really does need another 7-8 years. The oak has not fully integrated, the body is impenetrable for a couple hours, and the fruit is tight.
Sitting on over two hours in decanter, things are starting to get interesting. Cuban tobacco, menthol, wet tilled soil, dark and brambly fruits, dank ground cover. This is a huge Chinon, though not on the scale of the massive (if not slightly over-done) 2005 Dioterie. Big bold mouth weight, chewy tannins and firm acid. This is an ager for sure.
I think Joguet holds the Clos de La Dioterie out as its flagship Cuvee. It certainly has the oldest vines, like 75-95+ years. Iâve had bottles with 30+ years that are stupendous. But for archetype Chinon, I think Clos du Chene Vert takes the cake. Itâs a more sophisticated wine, more transparent, not quite the bruiser that the Dioterie can be.
This is a very good Dioterie but Iâm not ready to put it in the âexcellentâ category that Gilman and Wine Spectator declared. Iâm feeling 90-91+ pts.
[Day Two. Shut down. Leave this wine alone, letâs see what it does]
Iâve been waiting over 24 hours for this post! My stupid idea to change an entire system/software/interface, robbing me of the joy of this tasting note!
The only way to make it better is to have the author pronounce everything on the label, record it, and post it for all of us to enjoy!
Great way to start the new site! Thanks for the excellent note - theyâre an odd lot the 2010s - some open and charming, like the BretĂȘche by La Chevalerie which I enjoyed last night, others tight and tannic like your Joguet. They certainly have a long way to go.
Hasnât Joquet owned the Clos de La Dioterie vineyard a lot longer than it has owned Clos du Chene Vert? I seem to remember that the latter was a more recent purchase (although more recent could be the 1980s or 1990s) while he has owned the Dioterie for much longer. Could sentiment be one reason it is considered the flagship cuvee.
I wonder if I read this in Kermit Lynchâs wonderful book Adventures Along the Wine Route, which I think was first published in the 1980s or so. I guess the purchase of Chene Vert would have been kind of newish at the time he wrote the book.
Anyone who has not read Adventures Along the Wine Route should do so immediately. It is pretty dated by now, but it is much more of a wine philosophy book than a buyerâs guide, so I donât think date matters that much. I think a newer edition came out some time ago, but I donât think the book changed all that much. My favorite wine book that I have ever read, by a good margin, although I do like George Taberâs Judgment in Paris, which contains a fascinating history of the wine industry in California.
In any case, the couple of times I have had Joguet Dioterie with a good bit of age on it (I think from the late 1980s) they were quite good.
I was inclined to go out and get some of this wine, but then saw that itâs showing Cuban tobacco. Iâm really more of a South Carolina tobacco guy, so will pass.
In terms of history, location, orientation and timing of harvest the two sites couldnât be more different. But if I were to put my finger on one factor that puts Dioterie above ChĂȘne Vert it is the long association between domaine and vineyard. In a way, Joguet is Dioterie; when Charles came back to Sazilly from Paris in 1957 after the death of his father the familyâs principal vineyard was Dioterie. It was once a true clos, and Charles even set about rebuilding some of the walls at one point. Today it is the site of the Joguet winemaking facilities, including grape reception, a conveyor-belt sorting table (you might be surprised at the famous names in Chinon that donât even use a sorting table) cuverie and barrel cellars.
It was between 1972 and 1976 that Charles expanded the domaine, and as already noted by Robert it was at the end of this period that he bought the Clos du ChĂȘne Vert. It was apparently growing wild and required a lot of work to make it good. Being located on the opposite bank of the Vienne, I think it will always be the âodd one outâ in the portfolio. Much further from the cellars, and always the first of all the vineyards to be picked.
To my palate (and I am sure there will be differing opinions on this) quality at Charles Joguet has been up and down over the years I have followed the domaine, with three periods of high-quality with intervening dips, and the third of these three periods is now, with Kevin Fontaine making the wines. Quality has been superb (in the right vintages), and when I last tasted the 2010 Dioterie - which was in 2020 - I thought it was stunning.
I agree, Joguet has been up and down over the decades. And it has gotten pricey. That makes it a deliberate buy for me, unlike Baudry, which is an automatic but for me in every vintage.
I think you can discern that I was not wowed by this 2010, unlike my recent experience with the 2009:
The rest will slumber in storage for a spell, as I move a 2005 forward.
Ok obviously not Chris - Iâm taller, decidedly better looking, and as we all know, a much clunkier palate and a lower wine IQ. That said, I concur with you on the ABV, it is almost always higher in the years that I buy, which do admittedly tend to be the better years in Chinon. I think the 2005 Dioterie was like 14.5%, and it shows every single bit of that. The Kermit Lynch website, I seem to recall it mentioning that this is the last vineyard picked at the domain every year, and because of the sun exposure, Chene Vert is the first. I do not know if that is because of how long it takes the specific vineyard to achieve phenolic ripeness, or they literally harvest later to achieve a larger scale wine. Iâll leave that to Chris.
@Robert.A.Jr In regards to Clos ChĂȘne Vert, a couple of years ago some of us were egging you on to go back and reconsider 2003. Since then did you ever try it? My last bottle will be consumed this coming Fall or winter with some sort of hunk of meat.
I had such a string of bad luck with 2003 generally, and in particular with the Dioterie, that I never took the flyer. Not the easiest wine to find, in any event. Really psyched that it has shown so well for you, it is my favorite Cuvee.
âOk obviously not Chris - Iâm taller, decidedly better looking, and as we all know, a much clunkier palate and a lower wine IQâ - Iâm sure youâre right on the first two.
Agree that the higher alcohols in Dioterie reflect later picking; ChĂȘne Vert is always first picked, before all the left-bank fruit, while Dioterie is last to be picked. Despite its left-bank north-facing position, the difference allows the ABV to go that high.
âAnd what were the other two good periods that you mention?â
There is obviously a way to quote posts as others seem to manage it but it currently escapes me!
My response to your question might generate some debate as I know that this is not a universally held view of the domaineâs history, but I see it like this: Quality was high under Joguet himself during the 1980s, and nosedived during the 1990s after he departed*. For me the 1990s were disappointing here; quality in good vintages such as 1996 and 1997 was not what it should have been. Things picked up when François-Xavier Barc took on the winemaking role, suddenly for me Joguet was good again, this was 2003-2005. He only stayed a few years before departing, after which there was a bit of a wobble, which I put down to Kevin Fontaine finding his feet but it may have been amplified by lesser vintages, 2006, 2007 and 2008 not really favourable for Cabernet Franc in Touraine. After 2009 we entered a new era, again perhaps amplified by stronger vintages for the reds.
As I said this is not a view that will be met with universal agreement. I know some continued to rave about the wines of the 1990s, including 1996 and 1997, and itâs clear some donât like 2003 & 2005 in the way I do (although I havenât tasted 2003 for may years, to be honest).
