Two of my formative early experiences with aged white wine was with Trimbach. An '89 CFE and a 15 yr old Pinot Gris were both spectacular and so I started picking up a couple Alsatian white with some age.
But I’ve been had a few disappointing experiences, particularly with Trimbach. Another 89 CFE that was on death’s door. A 2011 Clos Ste Hune, which was a huge splurge for me, was amber colored, flabby, ok to drink but a huge let down. A 2001 CFE was likewise underwhelming. I opened a 2001 CFE 375eme just the other day, which was pretty meh.
Likewise, I had a 20+ yr old Pinot Gris Reserve Personelle that was fabulous. I’m confused. Hence, this post.
And this is not a “you just don’t like the taste of older white wines” phenomenon. I have enough experience and confidence to say that these wines were simply not in good shape.
What do you think is going on? Do Alsace wines have premox rates like the White Burgundies of a few years ago? Is Trimbach a particularly unreliable producer? I haven’t heard that before, but that’s my experience these days.
I have not heard of premox in Alsace. I also have not had unusual advanced issues with Trimbach. Unless you can guarantee provenance, I would assume that is most likely the issue here.
I’ve understood Trimbach has had some premox issues with Clos Saint Hune. Which sorta sucks, seeing how it is (or at least used to be) the most expensive Riesling in Alsace - and typically calls for some 10-15 years to show its best.
But haven’t heard of problems with CFE. How were the wines “underwhelming” for you?
And typically Trimbach wines age gracefully and usually better than their peers. Especially PG Reserve Personnelle is a stupendous wine with some age.
Some people have had issues with CFE (and CSH) for years. I thought it might have been a regional issue with shipping because I saw no problems for a long time, but in the last few years I had a 1996 that was much more advanced than I expected based on previous bottles, and then a pretty badly oxidized 2007 as well as another slightly advanced 2007.
Per Craig’s point: In recent history I’ve had two stupendous 2001 CFE 375anni and then one bottle in Oct 22 that seemed oxidized/dead. I also had what seemed to be an advanced 2011 CFE last year, so they aren’t totally risk free (not that any wine is). That being said, the Pinot Gris SGNs from '89, '99, and '00 have been some of my favorite wine experiences of the past few years.
‘97-‘00 were the most problematic years from a premox standpoint. Trimbach has also changed US importers and took the wines away from several distributors last decade due to some…err…issues.
My experiences from ‘02 onward have been fine except for getting some cooked (not premox) bottles.
I have had repeated bad premoxed bottles of CFE and now refuse to buy any more Trimbach. All of 2007, 2008 , 2009 and 2012 are the recent disasters for me.
For me it is a big issue with Trimbach and the NZ importer has had a problem getting Trimbach to accept there is any issue at all.
[quote=“David_Bu3ker, post:6, topic:299879, full:true”]
‘97-‘00 were the most problematic years from a premox standpoint. Trimbach has also changed US importers and took the wines away from several distributors last decade due to some…err…issues.[/quote]
Same experience here, though for my part premox has also affected a lot of 2001s.
Our local NY group’s experience goes back to '95 for premox in the CFE, with '95 and '96 being especially prevalent. In fact, I recently had the '95 from magnum that was well-advanced. The '90 Clos St. Hune also started to show it in the early aughts.
You’re also correct in that storage in the US may have been a culprit. That was regularly brought up particularly with the '01 CFE on wine boards and in the trade.
One more reason I suspect handling over true premox at least in part is that I had a six pack of ‘98 CFE that was purchased at Trimbach, and carefully brought back home. All those bottles were perfect. I had another eight bottles bought in the USA over a few years from release. Four of those eight were dead within a few years. All six of the Domaine purchase were perfect. All gone now, as I started opening them very quickly due to the issues with the USA sourced bottles.
This is actually one thing I’ve wondered with some bottles of Huet and white Burgundy. Although I’ve had a small handful of premoxed bottles, I think the incidence of these bottles seems and order of magnitude greater in the US than what I’ve experienced here.
It seems very weird that people over there get premoxed bottles all the time and I see them very seldom if ever. The same thing with wines like very old Italian reds that on average seem to be in much better shape on this side of the pond. Of course it’s possible that I’m an exceptionally lucky guy, but that doesn’t seem the most plausible answer.
All the wine I’ve bought at the domaine from 1985 to 1996 have been fine including magnums and bottles of 1996 CFE and bottles of CSH. Some 1997 CSH have been advanced, but everything after have been good. All my 1990’s have been pristine. 1989 from the domaine are good but I’ve had a few dodgy ones bought in the states.
Thanks everyone for the responses. It’s a bummer that these Trimbach wines have such a high failure rate, because when they’re on, they’re really ON- but at least I know I’m not alone.
I recently picked up a 2014 Schlossberg grand cru. We’ll see how that goes. I’ll report back here when I pop the cork.
I popped the cork on the 2014 Schlossberg grand cru. My excuse was to accompany the original Coronation Chicken.
I’ll post the TN in a separate thread, but I’ll just say that I was a bit disappointed for two reasons. 1- The cork was 90% of the way to leaking. WTF?! This bottle is less than 10 yrs old, and should be able to last for decades. Unacceptable. 2- I thought the wine was out of balance- shrill acid that clobbered any perceptible fruit. My suspicion is that this won’t age particularly well; I think the fruit will be gone by the time the acidity calms down. But then again…what do I know?
It’s a real shame though- Trimbach is one of the producers that first got me into wine. One of my early epiphany bottles was a humble one - a 10yr old Trimbach Pinot Gris Reserve. It was less than $30. It was the first time I tasted how a white wine could benefit from aging. And Trimbach became one of my few early favorite producers. I’ve had a couple really excellent experiences with Trimbach wines, but I’ve had more disappointments. Especially with the Riesling, which is what they are so renowned for. I splurged on a Clos Ste Hune, and it was a big disappointment. Several dead CFEs as well. I have a few Rieslings left in the cellar, but I won’t be buying any more for a while. Anything that bats less than 0.500, is a pass for me. I’ll stick to the Pinot Gris, which I still haven’t had a miss on.