De Negoce offer (Part 2)

Has anyone had 409 yet? The write up says similar to 17.

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Referring to the question of Bottle Shock, I turn this back over to past notes from Cameron Hughes who answers this more in terms of when the wine was bottled rather than the physical aspect of wine transport:

Bottle Shock: Wine is stored in either barrel or tank in an oxygen-free or “reductive” environment. When wine is transferred from tank/barrel to bottle, it picks up oxygen which creates compounds that act like a layer or blanket on top of the wine, muting its flavors. As well, filtration can break up phenolics that then need to coalesce again in the bottle. So, depending on the wine, getting through bottle shock takes anywhere from 4-6 weeks for light whites to 3-4 months for big reds.

While red wines take longer to move through bottle shock, high-quality reds that will age well also benefit from additional time in the bottle to develop mid-palate complexity and bottle bouquet. A good rule of thumb for high-quality Napa Cabernet is a good year in bottle before opening. Certain vintages, like Napa Valley Cabernet in 2013, are powerfully structured and are significantly benefited by 3-4 years in bottle. It doesn’t mean you can’t drink and enjoy them before then; however, you are likely missing out on considerable complexity and approachability by not doing so.


I bought 6 at the original offer. I opened one a few months ago and it was way too early. Saw the offer today and pulled another from the cellar. Ran it through an aerator a gave it a try. Super dark in glass, tooth staining purple. Hint of the black cherry and toffee on the nose. The description of it being big and chewy is pretty spot on. Its still young and should be ever better with more time in the bottle. I have not had lot 17 so i cannot compare the two. In for another case.


Thank you. In for 409! Had lots of points to use.


Do you happen to know the approximate bottling date? I think this may have been one of the last releases by Cam.

Order was shipped first week of September. I dont think it was a futures order since it was fulfilled less than a week from the time i purchased it.


Bottling dates for dN wines can be found at, but for lot 409, there’s no date listed.

Bottling date for Lot 409 | 2021 Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon was July 15, 2023.


Thank you very much for the date! I was disappointed that it wasn’t listed on the website.

Someone has now entered the date into Denegociants.

2020 Éleveur Volnay 1er Cru Santenots Rouge

What are your thoughts on this?

I have never had a wine from Burgundy. Does this look like a good introduction?

Also, when should this wine be consumed, assuming it’s like a real Burgundy?

The 2019 Eleveur Santenay was determined to actually be the 2019 Edouard Delaunay Santenay. As such, I think it’s a fairly safe assumption that this 2020 Eleveur Volnay Santenots is - in reality - the 2020 Edouard Delaunay Volnay Santenots…

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It’s the kind of producer that’s offered by various discount sites in the US (Garagiste and such). The dN price is decent, but it’s not a “deal”.


2020 Santenots, Only 70- 6’ers. That’s 35 cases. Will it Sell out quickly???
Waiting here impatiently for the 2023 domestic PN’s!!! :yum::wine_glass::yum: Not Roses, please.
& 2023 domestic CS’s….

Wow, only one reply.How times have changed


RE: the Santenots currently offered:
In a discussion with a fellow dN fan, he said: “Most People don’t go to that site for $53 bottles.”


Lot 401 | 2021 Napa Valley Proprietary Red Wine

I kinda like this juice…

Black and blue fruits, all-spice, meaty, and some leather.


After seeing your post, I popped a dN401 myself…found it enjoyable yet a too tight, too hot just yet. Left 1/2 on the counter, will revisit tonight and see if it evolves…


Second night of the 401…still too young, too tight. Big fruit bomb, structure and depth lurking but…saved it for one more try…