We’ve all seen what Reddit subforums can do to stock prices…
No one complains about the price of groceries, household products, gas, etc? Give me a break.
12 Likes
Montrose is confirmed for next wednesday, confirmed by the chateau directly on discord 
3 Likes
The price argument always seems to be one sided though. Where was the defense of the consumer when LLC released at all time highs last year?
You either need to subscribe to ‘its a free market, its supply and demand’, or not. You cant toggle between at moments of convenience.
Like when chateau blame inflation for increasing prices - well, hang on, your gross margin is up to 80%, I’m pretty sure you dont need to increase your retail price by 10% to compensate for 10% inflation in the cost of production if your gross margin is 80%.
Bordeaux could have easily avoided all questions of jobs, fair market value, etc, if they consistently released 10% below fair market value every year, like the old days in en primeur. Then not a soul here would have an issue supporting the campaign
I would feel a lot more supportive if, say, the vineyards were being replaced by AI, or someone had found a way to perfectly and indistinguishably synthesise in a lab Mouton 2000 for £50 a bottle. But, that’s not really the problem. The problem is years of squeezing every penny out of the customer, and customers getting wise to it. Even in reality, this en primeur is only the facade of value for money, when taken in the broader context of the price hikes in 2020, 2021 (‘We’re keeping prices high to support structural pricing shifts we’re trying to achieve’) and 2022, its hard to break out the violins when demand is off a cliff in 2023 (BBR/Farr financial accounts show a clear and consistent downward trend in en primeur sales since 2010, for example)
BTW - I appreciate this is extremely broadbrush. There are some people like the Bartons who quite moderated their price releases when they could probably have been more aggressive, and similarly, havent discounted necessarily as much as others
16 Likes
Those are things that people need to live.
Despite what Thomas Jefferson said, wine is NOT a necessity of life.
thatll be why demand for wine has gone through the floor in the last 18 months
3 Likes
I’m feeling some sort of connection between summer box office blues and the 2023 bordeaux market. It’s “why should we go to the theater if it’s going to be streaming soon enough” versus, well, everything we’ve discussed here.
I still ended up buying one bottle of Pichon Lalande. I noticed that K&L, which has a pretty good price, seems to be going through their first allocation (down from just ‘Special Order’ to 60 bottles to 16 today) and I figured springing for one bottle wouldn’t wound me if the price is the same in 2 or 5 years.
You are completely missing the point.
Producers have in most cases made huge price decreases this year. When a wine like PLL is one of the top 10 wines of the vintage, comes way down in price, and people are STILL criticizing the price of the wine, I’m at a total loss for words.
L’eglise Clinet is one of the very best wines of the vintage, and seemingly a legend in the making for the house and a 19.2% price DECREASE is “disappointing” (description used above).
It’s starting to feel like the wines need to be free for folks on here to think it’s a vintage worth buying.
The issue with EP; the prices can drop in the future, maybe not as likely with 23’ but who knows. We have the luxury of waiting until the wine is in bottle and even better we can just go backfill wine that has already aged. There are no rules for buying wine. My price comments are directly related to a very full cellar, buying a new home in the next half year or so and no desire to overspend because of that.
I am still buying wine, but I am cherry picking what I feel is best for me. Price is absoluely an issue and always will be.
3 Likes
I dont erally agree. 2019 was a vintage a lot of people here bought. I bought a lot of 2020 as well, and 2022.
That 19.2% price decrease is relative to a massively jacked price in the last few years, though. Returning to a reasonable perception of normalcy doesnt mean its somehow inherently compelling
It’s not as strong a vintage as some other recent ones, all commentary, scores, etc say that. So being one of the top 10 wines of the vintage is a bit moot, no? Do you seek out (I’m being deliberately polarising) one of the top 10 wines of 2013 or 2017 because they were the best, even though the vintage was poor?
At the end of the day, W-B (and discord in a more extreme sense) is a reflection of consumer sentiment - we cant really deny that EP seasons have been flop after flop in recent years, barring maybe 2015 and 2019, and its no surprise that people aren’t really that fussed about it anymore.
At 5% interest, and with the wine market and the QPR of many of these wines where it is, I’m happy to sit on most of these and wait until they’re in bottle before I consider a plunge. Aside from a choice few for birth vintage celebration (e.g. Montrose because my daughter’s name is Rose, Lafleur just cuz)
2 Likes
Is there a job that exists that people don’t ever talk negatively about? Get mad at the chateau, not the consumer.
1 Like
I hear what you’re saying. I buy a good portion of bdx. Say usually 5-6 cases annually. Mostly seconds in the $100-$200 range. All for drinking and have been doing this since 2009. I’m just having trouble getting excited this year. I see the price decreases and I think I’ll need 20yrs to enjoy them and I then I buy back vintages instead. Something I can enjoy now. Been doing it all month. I’ll probably buy some Montrose to keep my vertical going, and Rauzan. Prices really aren’t low enough. Truly. Wine doesn’t need to be “free” but to drive excitement needs to be another 10-15% lower. Very few of these wines are going to be more expensive in bottle.
2 Likes
That one is temping maybe in 375. But I don’t always love Giscours and wasn’t at ep to taste.
I think you are adding things to what I’m saying that I’m not saying.
At no point have I advocated for the entirety of the vintage. This is not a 2016 type year.
But people are finding fault in the stars with two of the very best wines (and frankly wines that DO make sense to buy EP), that’s where I’m struggling. Solely focused on wines that I think are priced right and have outstanding quality.
Fwiw I thought PLL was on the better side of fair value but it’s not normally a super exciting EP buy nor quite enough to be mega compelling IMHO. There’s enough volume of it that it’ll never sell out and I just don’t expect to see 2023 move significantly in bottle for the next few years
Eglise… I’ve always been tempted but never pulled the trigger, it always feels a little higher than I’m willing to stomach
You have a buying strategy that works for you, and that’s great.
If you have a cellar full of wine that is still on the young side (as you noted, 2009 and younger), then buying back vintages to have things to drink is a wise move. All wise things and something I would be telling people to do in your position.
But what about the feelings of the people that produce things the world needs?
Funny enough, that’s why I’m super excited I got to taste the 2023. It changed my perspective on what the team there is doing. I was very vocal on the 2020 Montrose that Mark so kindly started and I adore the wine. The 2023 PL resonates in that same way.
I’m definitely buying Montrose this year
My likely exit will be
Suduiraut (we bought 1.5 barrels in discord)
Laroque (another discord barrel fun)
6 lafleur
12 Montrose
6 each carmes.and canon
6 mags dame montrose
3 Likes
Again, there is nothing that public opinion is going to change about the price of milk and eggs. That’s up for people far more important than me to figure out.
I’m just a humble retailer who’s looking out for my other retail friends, hoping we can all find something for consumers to get excited about and buy again.