de Negoce offer

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Nate Simon
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1101 Post by Nate Simon » July 31st, 2020, 10:57 am

Mike Kuller wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 8:43 am
I thought de Negoce was going to be different because he was offering high end wine at a deep discount.

If you guys are right and the Dry Creek zinfandel is from $17 Pedroncelli, then de Negoce is no different than Cameron Hughes old label.

Except you have to buy a case.
Berserkers: “I want Cameron to offer me really good wine at very affordable prices!”

Also Berserkers: “I don’t want Cameron to offer less expensive wines at very affordable prices!”

🤔

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1102 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 10:58 am

Nate Simon wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 10:57 am
Mike Kuller wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 8:43 am
I thought de Negoce was going to be different because he was offering high end wine at a deep discount.

If you guys are right and the Dry Creek zinfandel is from $17 Pedroncelli, then de Negoce is no different than Cameron Hughes old label.

Except you have to buy a case.
Berserkers: “I want Cameron to offer me really good wine at very affordable prices!”

Also Berserkers: “I don’t want Cameron to offer less expensive wines at very affordable prices!”

🤔
For some reason they assume if an $8 wine =$18 retail then a $18 wine is prob $28 retail not the $70-$90 he is advertising. I really don't get it.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1103 Post by Max S. » July 31st, 2020, 11:09 am

Realistically some deals are going to be better than others. I figure if he says a bottle is 75 at a winery, I could probably get it at retail for 40-50, and thus its worth it at 25 all-in.

The margins are going to be smaller for a cheaper wine so it may not be worth it. Buyer beware, but in general based on the reviews thus far things look solid.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1104 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 11:31 am

M a x S w o m l e y wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 11:09 am
Realistically some deals are going to be better than others. I figure if he says a bottle is 75 at a winery, I could probably get it at retail for 40-50, and thus its worth it at 25 all-in.

The margins are going to be smaller for a cheaper wine so it may not be worth it. Buyer beware, but in general based on the reviews thus far things look solid.
This is how I look at it. Also, the $29 shipping is pro rata more attractive per bottle at the higher end offerings.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1105 Post by PeterJ » July 31st, 2020, 11:43 am

Overall this program is very attractive and even a $19 bottle for $10 or so all in is not a bad deal. But........ I’d venture to say that the hype has been for much higher ‘priced’ wine at a larger ‘discount’. It’s just surprising, assuming we’re right about #25, that the ‘formula’ would change so early on.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1106 Post by Mike Kuller » July 31st, 2020, 11:48 am

Nate Simon wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 10:57 am
Mike Kuller wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 8:43 am
I thought de Negoce was going to be different because he was offering high end wine at a deep discount.

If you guys are right and the Dry Creek zinfandel is from $17 Pedroncelli, then de Negoce is no different than Cameron Hughes old label.

Except you have to buy a case.
Berserkers: “I want Cameron to offer me really good wine at very affordable prices!”

Also Berserkers: “I don’t want Cameron to offer less expensive wines at very affordable prices!”

🤔
If you knew it was a Miner at a good price, would you buy it?

Probably.

How about if you knew it was a Pedroncelli at a good price?

What about all the wines in between?

Buying a case without being able to sample first is a gamble no matter what the price plus $29 shipping.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1107 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 11:51 am

PeterJ wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 11:43 am
Overall this program is very attractive and even a $19 bottle for $10 or so all in is not a bad deal. But........ I’d venture to say that the hype has been for much higher ‘priced’ wine at a larger ‘discount’. It’s just surprising, assuming we’re right about #25, that the ‘formula’ would change so early on.
lol, the previous 3 cabs (maybe 4?) were the most expensive offerings yet at $18/bottle

i would not say the model has changed cause of a couple cheap offerings.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1108 Post by Nate Simon » July 31st, 2020, 12:01 pm

The model hasn’t changed at all.
Cameron says, “I source a high-end "bulk" wine I find compelling, complete the final blend, and negotiate a price.”
What “high-end” connotes can be construed differently based on the context. He spells out pretty plainly what to expect with each release. Caveat emptor? Perhaps, in the sense that you’re asked to go in for a case of something nobody’s tasted yet, but we know that up front.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1109 Post by Nick F. » July 31st, 2020, 12:15 pm

" Known in the trade as En Primeur or futures, buying wine out of the barrel allows you to access pricing not seen since the 1970's."

This is different than above..I want blind futures, I do not want CH Blends.

I am willing to take the risk on blind bottles of the same wine I can get at the vineyard...
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1110 Post by Mike Kuller » July 31st, 2020, 12:15 pm

Nate Simon wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 12:01 pm
The model hasn’t changed at all.
Cameron says, “I source a high-end "bulk" wine I find compelling, complete the final blend, and negotiate a price.”
What “high-end” connotes can be construed differently based on the context. He spells out pretty plainly what to expect with each release. Caveat emptor? Perhaps, in the sense that you’re asked to go in for a case of something nobody’s tasted yet, but we know that up front.
Sounds like the same business model as his original label, but here you have to buy it direct, by the case and pay shipping.

With tasting rooms and restaurants still closed there should be plenty of high end bulk wine available. Can't understand why he isn't sticking to that.

And because he's selling direct he's writing excellent ad copy.

I probably tasted about 20 of his original label wines - one cab was excellent, one was very good and the rest of the wines were ok but I wouldn't buy them.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1111 Post by PeterJ » July 31st, 2020, 12:20 pm

MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 11:51 am
PeterJ wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 11:43 am
Overall this program is very attractive and even a $19 bottle for $10 or so all in is not a bad deal. But........ I’d venture to say that the hype has been for much higher ‘priced’ wine at a larger ‘discount’. It’s just surprising, assuming we’re right about #25, that the ‘formula’ would change so early on.
lol, the previous 3 cabs (maybe 4?) were the most expensive offerings yet at $18/bottle

i would not say the model has changed cause of a couple cheap offerings.
Are you suggesting that most of the hype about this wasn’t based on a possible 3, 4, 5 times multiple ‘value’? [stirthepothal.gif]
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1112 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 12:24 pm

PeterJ wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 12:20 pm
MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 11:51 am
PeterJ wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 11:43 am
Overall this program is very attractive and even a $19 bottle for $10 or so all in is not a bad deal. But........ I’d venture to say that the hype has been for much higher ‘priced’ wine at a larger ‘discount’. It’s just surprising, assuming we’re right about #25, that the ‘formula’ would change so early on.
lol, the previous 3 cabs (maybe 4?) were the most expensive offerings yet at $18/bottle

i would not say the model has changed cause of a couple cheap offerings.
Are you suggesting that most of the hype about this wasn’t based on a possible 3, 4, 5 times multiple ‘value’? [stirthepothal.gif]
That is what those $18 bottles offered.

It seems that all the controversy is because of 1 single $8/$18 bottle of wine?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1113 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 12:25 pm

Nick F. wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 12:15 pm
" Known in the trade as En Primeur or futures, buying wine out of the barrel allows you to access pricing not seen since the 1970's."

This is different than above..I want blind futures, I do not want CH Blends.

I am willing to take the risk on blind bottles of the same wine I can get at the vineyard...
It was pretty clear a lot of the offerings are not shiners/identical to the winery. But yes, this is one of the main criticisms I have of the venture. He should let us know upfront if it's identical or just excess bulk wine he is blending. I think *most* bulk wine he is blending and that's fine with me, I just want to know upfront.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1114 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 12:43 pm

Zin is sold out, lol.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1115 Post by Mike Kuller » July 31st, 2020, 2:26 pm

MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 12:43 pm
Zin is sold out, lol.
LOL! I'll buy a bottle of Pedroncelli in the fall to see what I missed.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1116 Post by larry schaffer » July 31st, 2020, 3:09 pm

MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 12:25 pm
Nick F. wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 12:15 pm
" Known in the trade as En Primeur or futures, buying wine out of the barrel allows you to access pricing not seen since the 1970's."

This is different than above..I want blind futures, I do not want CH Blends.

I am willing to take the risk on blind bottles of the same wine I can get at the vineyard...
It was pretty clear a lot of the offerings are not shiners/identical to the winery. But yes, this is one of the main criticisms I have of the venture. He should let us know upfront if it's identical or just excess bulk wine he is blending. I think *most* bulk wine he is blending and that's fine with me, I just want to know upfront.
Matthew,

I'm not Cameron, but my guess is that he legally is not allowed to say it is an identical wine. He seems to give enough clues so folks can 'figure it out themselves', but not sure he is legally allowed to disclose.

Cheers
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1117 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 4:59 pm

larry schaffer wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 3:09 pm
MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 12:25 pm
Nick F. wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 12:15 pm
" Known in the trade as En Primeur or futures, buying wine out of the barrel allows you to access pricing not seen since the 1970's."

This is different than above..I want blind futures, I do not want CH Blends.

I am willing to take the risk on blind bottles of the same wine I can get at the vineyard...
It was pretty clear a lot of the offerings are not shiners/identical to the winery. But yes, this is one of the main criticisms I have of the venture. He should let us know upfront if it's identical or just excess bulk wine he is blending. I think *most* bulk wine he is blending and that's fine with me, I just want to know upfront.
Matthew,

I'm not Cameron, but my guess is that he legally is not allowed to say it is an identical wine. He seems to give enough clues so folks can 'figure it out themselves', but not sure he is legally allowed to disclose.

Cheers
He said in the SF article #1 was identical. I don't think that's the issue. But I do think the vast majority are not identical but from excess barrels bought and blended by Cameron. That's fine with me.

The actual quote from the article "The winery that made it sells the same exact wine for $50, Hughes says." Makes sense, he sold 6666 cases of #1. It was clearly not some blend he made.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1118 Post by Benjg » July 31st, 2020, 5:16 pm

My attitude on these releases is that they are $10-$15 daily drinkers with a fun story that hopefully are great value at these prices.

If I was hoping for $100 bottles with every release I think I would probably be disappointed, but I’ve got lower expectations and hopefully will be pleasantly surprised.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1119 Post by Max S. » July 31st, 2020, 5:33 pm

Benjg wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 5:16 pm
My attitude on these releases is that they are $10-$15 daily drinkers with a fun story that hopefully are great value at these prices.

If I was hoping for $100 bottles with every release I think I would probably be disappointed, but I’ve got lower expectations and hopefully will be pleasantly surprised.
I agree, plan for the worst, hope for the best!
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1120 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » July 31st, 2020, 5:40 pm

I’m still assuming that it is all MACDONALD if we can’t figure out which winery it is from.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1121 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 7:01 pm

Benjg wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 5:16 pm
My attitude on these releases is that they are $10-$15 daily drinkers with a fun story that hopefully are great value at these prices.

If I was hoping for $100 bottles with every release I think I would probably be disappointed, but I’ve got lower expectations and hopefully will be pleasantly surprised.
Yah, I hope people don't think I think I'm gonna be drinking $90 QPR for $15 every day. I simply don't expect that. In my mind, I'm hoping for a 30-40 QPR for 15-20, all daily drinkers. Cause I drink daily!

If it ends up better, great.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1122 Post by Lena N » July 31st, 2020, 7:30 pm

MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 10:01 am
Mike R wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 9:47 am
It's funny - there have been two offerings where the winery was definitively identified, both of which were extremely unpopular offerings. I think if there was transparency into who the actual wineries were there would be A LOT less enthusiasm for this project.
Not really true. It's virtually certain we know Miner is 2/3/4, so much so, he took down "stage coach" from the description.

And yah, Robert Craig is very likely to be 21 and 22.

Finally, #25 is likely SMV which is also very impressive.

But yes, if you think Cameron is a fraud and putting #s in the descriptions that are flat out false, you should prob not purchase any of these wines!

Oh and we know what #17 and #20 were. And #17 was a weaker offering and I passed but I did buy #20.
Why do you think #2, 3 and 4 are from Miner?
NG

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1123 Post by Chr!s G|@rn3r » July 31st, 2020, 7:42 pm

Lena N wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 7:30 pm
MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 10:01 am
Mike R wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 9:47 am
It's funny - there have been two offerings where the winery was definitively identified, both of which were extremely unpopular offerings. I think if there was transparency into who the actual wineries were there would be A LOT less enthusiasm for this project.
Not really true. It's virtually certain we know Miner is 2/3/4, so much so, he took down "stage coach" from the description.

And yah, Robert Craig is very likely to be 21 and 22.

Finally, #25 is likely SMV which is also very impressive.

But yes, if you think Cameron is a fraud and putting #s in the descriptions that are flat out false, you should prob not purchase any of these wines!

Oh and we know what #17 and #20 were. And #17 was a weaker offering and I passed but I did buy #20.
Why do you think #2, 3 and 4 are from Miner?
Read the thread

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1124 Post by Lena N » July 31st, 2020, 7:47 pm

Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 7:42 pm
Lena N wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 7:30 pm
MatthewT wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 10:01 am


Not really true. It's virtually certain we know Miner is 2/3/4, so much so, he took down "stage coach" from the description.

And yah, Robert Craig is very likely to be 21 and 22.

Finally, #25 is likely SMV which is also very impressive.

But yes, if you think Cameron is a fraud and putting #s in the descriptions that are flat out false, you should prob not purchase any of these wines!

Oh and we know what #17 and #20 were. And #17 was a weaker offering and I passed but I did buy #20.
Why do you think #2, 3 and 4 are from Miner?
Read the thread


Hmmm I read it but it was not clear it was from Miner especially the CS
NG

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1125 Post by MatthewT » July 31st, 2020, 7:55 pm

Lena N wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 7:47 pm
Chr!s G|@rn3r wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 7:42 pm
Lena N wrote:
July 31st, 2020, 7:30 pm


Why do you think #2, 3 and 4 are from Miner?
Read the thread


Hmmm I read it but it was not clear it was from Miner especially the CS
the tip off was when 4 was released he said last of 3 purchased from SAME winery, all stagecoach, and based on price point and offering a merlot and a cab franc nothing else fit.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1126 Post by M!ke S. » July 31st, 2020, 10:07 pm

Has to be. They all mimic Miner's stagecoach wines!

How was the Cabernet Franc? Noone has reviewed it on CT?
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1127 Post by Toby P » August 1st, 2020, 7:46 am

As we await the next $400 cabernet for $10 offer, curious if anyone has any guesses on #8 form a while back. Seems one of the few that we didn't come up with any plausible options for, despite the fact that a lot of details were provided. Reposting the description:

"In the meantime, enjoy today's release. Another incredible Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon hailing from the southern end of the Mt Veeder appellation.

Deep, dark and delicious, this gorgeously brooding, primarily Mt. Veeder-derived Cabernet (full breakout below) is an absolute showstopper. Aged in a blend of 50% new American and French oak, this rich yet powerfully structured wine will thrill those of who like their Cabernet's big and bold.

Retailing just south of $100/bottle at the winery, its an incredible value at $14/bottle or $168/case. More good news: IT BOTTLES AND SHIPS NEXT WEEK.

Baking spices of toasted vanilla, nutmeg and brown sugar provide a savory counterpoint to the blackberry syrup and lilac aromas. Plump, juicy layers of red and black fruit combine with mysterious deep and savory tones all lifted by the firm acidity and candied black fruit. Simultaneously lush and powerful, this hillside Cabernet will drink well in its youth while having all the structure and stuffing to go another 10-15 years in the cellar. 14.4% alc.

81% Mt. Veeder
19% St. Helena

79% Cabernet Sauvignon
12% Merlot
5% Malbec
3% Petite Verdot
1% Cabernet Franc

50% new French and American oak
50% seasoned cooperage
14.4% Alc."
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1128 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 7:55 am

Toby P wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 7:46 am
As we await the next $400 cabernet for $10 offer, curious if anyone has any guesses on #8 form a while back. Seems one of the few that we didn't come up with any plausible options for, despite the fact that a lot of details were provided. Reposting the description:

"In the meantime, enjoy today's release. Another incredible Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon hailing from the southern end of the Mt Veeder appellation.

Deep, dark and delicious, this gorgeously brooding, primarily Mt. Veeder-derived Cabernet (full breakout below) is an absolute showstopper. Aged in a blend of 50% new American and French oak, this rich yet powerfully structured wine will thrill those of who like their Cabernet's big and bold.

Retailing just south of $100/bottle at the winery, its an incredible value at $14/bottle or $168/case. More good news: IT BOTTLES AND SHIPS NEXT WEEK.

Baking spices of toasted vanilla, nutmeg and brown sugar provide a savory counterpoint to the blackberry syrup and lilac aromas. Plump, juicy layers of red and black fruit combine with mysterious deep and savory tones all lifted by the firm acidity and candied black fruit. Simultaneously lush and powerful, this hillside Cabernet will drink well in its youth while having all the structure and stuffing to go another 10-15 years in the cellar. 14.4% alc.

81% Mt. Veeder
19% St. Helena

79% Cabernet Sauvignon
12% Merlot
5% Malbec
3% Petite Verdot
1% Cabernet Franc

50% new French and American oak
50% seasoned cooperage
14.4% Alc."
https://www.anthemwinery.com/

Anthem has Mt Veeder, St Helena, and Merlot. Price point is about there.

Edit: Bingo, it has to be them.

At the time of their purchase, the property was planted to a small vineyard of Merlot. With the help and encouragement of noted viticulturist, Mary Maher (long time vineyard manager for Harlan Estate), they soon planted additional acres of vines. Today the property features not only Merlot but Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc with a tiny amount of Petit Verdot.

http://www.napawineproject.com/anthem-winery/

Their vineyards are about 400 feet in elevation (among the lower vineyards in the Mt. Veeder appellation). To the east, their property drops off dramatically into the Oak Knoll AVA. During an afternoon visit, the pleasant breezes on an otherwise fairly warm summer day kept the property cool. That is typical of Mt. Veeder – especially in the southern part of the appellation – with the cooling air blowing up from the nearby San Pablo Bay.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1129 Post by Toby P » August 1st, 2020, 8:08 am

MatthewT wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 7:55 am
Toby P wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 7:46 am
As we await the next $400 cabernet for $10 offer, curious if anyone has any guesses on #8 form a while back. Seems one of the few that we didn't come up with any plausible options for, despite the fact that a lot of details were provided. Reposting the description:

"In the meantime, enjoy today's release. Another incredible Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon hailing from the southern end of the Mt Veeder appellation.

Deep, dark and delicious, this gorgeously brooding, primarily Mt. Veeder-derived Cabernet (full breakout below) is an absolute showstopper. Aged in a blend of 50% new American and French oak, this rich yet powerfully structured wine will thrill those of who like their Cabernet's big and bold.

Retailing just south of $100/bottle at the winery, its an incredible value at $14/bottle or $168/case. More good news: IT BOTTLES AND SHIPS NEXT WEEK.

Baking spices of toasted vanilla, nutmeg and brown sugar provide a savory counterpoint to the blackberry syrup and lilac aromas. Plump, juicy layers of red and black fruit combine with mysterious deep and savory tones all lifted by the firm acidity and candied black fruit. Simultaneously lush and powerful, this hillside Cabernet will drink well in its youth while having all the structure and stuffing to go another 10-15 years in the cellar. 14.4% alc.

81% Mt. Veeder
19% St. Helena

79% Cabernet Sauvignon
12% Merlot
5% Malbec
3% Petite Verdot
1% Cabernet Franc

50% new French and American oak
50% seasoned cooperage
14.4% Alc."
https://www.anthemwinery.com/

Anthem has Mt Veeder, St Helena, and Merlot. Price point is about there.

Edit: Bingo, it has to be them.

At the time of their purchase, the property was planted to a small vineyard of Merlot. With the help and encouragement of noted viticulturist, Mary Maher (long time vineyard manager for Harlan Estate), they soon planted additional acres of vines. Today the property features not only Merlot but Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc with a tiny amount of Petit Verdot.

http://www.napawineproject.com/anthem-winery/
Hmm interesting thanks, think I had crossed them off in part bc past releases seemed to be 100% cabernet sauvignon. But this makes it a bit more likely. Past releases still don't totally match up on other stuff (e.g. barrels seem to be 100% French Oak, and the case production wasn't large). All that said, this is the likeliest candidate I've seen.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1130 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 8:14 am

Toby P wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 8:08 am
MatthewT wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 7:55 am
Toby P wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 7:46 am
As we await the next $400 cabernet for $10 offer, curious if anyone has any guesses on #8 form a while back. Seems one of the few that we didn't come up with any plausible options for, despite the fact that a lot of details were provided. Reposting the description:

"In the meantime, enjoy today's release. Another incredible Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon hailing from the southern end of the Mt Veeder appellation.

Deep, dark and delicious, this gorgeously brooding, primarily Mt. Veeder-derived Cabernet (full breakout below) is an absolute showstopper. Aged in a blend of 50% new American and French oak, this rich yet powerfully structured wine will thrill those of who like their Cabernet's big and bold.

Retailing just south of $100/bottle at the winery, its an incredible value at $14/bottle or $168/case. More good news: IT BOTTLES AND SHIPS NEXT WEEK.

Baking spices of toasted vanilla, nutmeg and brown sugar provide a savory counterpoint to the blackberry syrup and lilac aromas. Plump, juicy layers of red and black fruit combine with mysterious deep and savory tones all lifted by the firm acidity and candied black fruit. Simultaneously lush and powerful, this hillside Cabernet will drink well in its youth while having all the structure and stuffing to go another 10-15 years in the cellar. 14.4% alc.

81% Mt. Veeder
19% St. Helena

79% Cabernet Sauvignon
12% Merlot
5% Malbec
3% Petite Verdot
1% Cabernet Franc

50% new French and American oak
50% seasoned cooperage
14.4% Alc."
https://www.anthemwinery.com/

Anthem has Mt Veeder, St Helena, and Merlot. Price point is about there.

Edit: Bingo, it has to be them.

At the time of their purchase, the property was planted to a small vineyard of Merlot. With the help and encouragement of noted viticulturist, Mary Maher (long time vineyard manager for Harlan Estate), they soon planted additional acres of vines. Today the property features not only Merlot but Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc with a tiny amount of Petit Verdot.

http://www.napawineproject.com/anthem-winery/
Hmm interesting thanks, think I had crossed them off in part bc past releases seemed to be 100% cabernet sauvignon. But this makes it a bit more likely. Past releases still don't totally match up on other stuff (e.g. barrels seem to be 100% French Oak, and the case production wasn't large). All that said, this is the likeliest candidate I've seen.
Yah, but we have to remember this is 2018...they haven't even released 2017 yet! So we have no idea what they will release w/ 2018. It almost has to be Anthem. He basically copied the "southern part of the appellation" language. Guessing they planted some Malbec since that profile was made a few years ago.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1131 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 8:16 am

Also profile says 1100 cases but again this was years ago and 2018 was a big vintage. Not inconceivable they sold Cameron a few hundred cases. Maybe it was a special blend for him with leftover barrels.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1132 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 8:24 am

Sure enough, Anthem now has Malbec. And 55% New French Oak. $70

https://store.stfranciswinery.com/redwi ... nthem-2016
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1133 Post by Toby P » August 1st, 2020, 8:33 am

Damn, good call - I think you nailed it! WTSO has offered the 2012 and 2013 Anthem Mt Veeder Cab a bunch of times for $60 too. Interesting to note that retail for those vinatages was $135, but more recent ones are listed at $110 and $125 on their site. So maybe they've been taking the price down which would potentially line up with Cameron's "just south of $100" for the 2018. Anyways, looks like a great deal if correct, and his copy implies that this is the same blend as what the winery bottled.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1134 Post by Margo Smith » August 1st, 2020, 8:35 am

FYI, I had placed an order for the Zinfandel, but was worried by the comments here that implied that this wine in particular wasn't the $25 wine (i.e. another wine from the same seller was $25), so I wrote to them with that concern. I received a response from Cameron confirming that this wine *would* indeed sell for $25, and that he stands behind his comments in print. Don't think this is the "Mother Clone" wine.

I felt much better about the Zin order after that. Sharing only in case it makes others feel better too.
Last edited by Margo Smith on August 1st, 2020, 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1135 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 8:37 am

Toby P wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 8:33 am
Damn, good call - I think you nailed it! WTSO has offered the 2012 and 2013 Anthem Mt Veeder Cab a bunch of times for $60 too. Interesting to note that retail for those vinatages was $135, but more recent ones are listed at $110 and $125 on their site. So maybe they've been taking the price down which would potentially line up with Cameron's "just south of $100" for the 2018. Anyways, looks like a great deal if correct, and his copy implies that this is the same blend as what the winery bottled.
Also the Meritage is $70 so it's all in the ballpark.

They have never released a blend exactly like this so he is prob guessing what the pricing will be when they do put it out? It's all a bit of a game there.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1136 Post by Benjg » August 1st, 2020, 9:45 am

Toby P wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 7:46 am
As we await the next $400 cabernet for $10 offer
What!?! Everyone knows that $10 for a $400 cab is way too much!!! Hard pass!

[snort.gif]
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1137 Post by Michael Feldman » August 1st, 2020, 9:47 am

MatthewT wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 8:24 am
Sure enough, Anthem now has Malbec. And 55% New French Oak. $70

https://store.stfranciswinery.com/redwi ... nthem-2016
Curious why do you think the St Francis Meritage has any connection to the Anthem Winery/Cabernet?
Also as I ordered OG 17 which NAPA winery do you think it is?

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1138 Post by Lloyd A. Kasman » August 1st, 2020, 10:06 am

Thanks to the sleuths on this board, if OG 8 is Anthem I’d be rather pleased with my selection! Keep up the good work guys! :-)

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1139 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 10:14 am

Michael Feldman wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 9:47 am
MatthewT wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 8:24 am
Sure enough, Anthem now has Malbec. And 55% New French Oak. $70

https://store.stfranciswinery.com/redwi ... nthem-2016
Curious why do you think the St Francis Meritage has any connection to the Anthem Winery/Cabernet?
Also as I ordered OG 17 which NAPA winery do you think it is?
Whoops I screwed that part up but still certain #8 is Anthem

Re 17 and 20 are Beaucanon (extremely likely)
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1140 Post by Nate Simon » August 1st, 2020, 10:16 am

Michael Feldman wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 9:47 am
MatthewT wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 8:24 am
Sure enough, Anthem now has Malbec. And 55% New French Oak. $70

https://store.stfranciswinery.com/redwi ... nthem-2016
Curious why do you think the St Francis Meritage has any connection to the Anthem Winery/Cabernet?
Also as I ordered OG 17 which NAPA winery do you think it is?
Because St Francis makes it.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1141 Post by James Mc » August 1st, 2020, 10:22 am

Curious - are any of you guys planning to taste the OG’s side by side with what you believe the wine is? Think that would be pretty cool “exercise” once these they get through bottle shock. Would work with the shiners but obviously not the ones Cameron is blending.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1142 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 10:24 am

James Mc wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 10:22 am
Curious - are any of you guys planning to taste the OG’s side by side with what you believe the wine is? Think that would be pretty cool “exercise” once these they get through bottle shock. Would work with the shiners but obviously not the ones Cameron is blending.
It's a cool idea though the vast majority of the wines we have "discovered" won't be officially released for 1-2 years. Also I don't want to pay 3-5x to see if I'm right. [snort.gif]
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1143 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 1:02 pm

#11 which was the "hot" one has only had 2 bottles consumed on Cellar Tracker, both by the same person. No reviews yet. If you read this board post a review!
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1144 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 1:18 pm

Pretty sure #11 Is Providence Vineyards

This all-star Napa Valley Cabernet-based Meritage is sourced from legendary Rutherford and Howell Mountain vineyards with Calistoga playing a supporting role. Focused and expressive, it fully delivers with gorgeous aromas of cassis, black cherry, cigar box and Rutherford dust all accentuated by fine tannins from seasoned French oak. 21% Cabernet Franc blessed the blend bringing added layers of elegant violet aromas and savory depth. Rich and chewy, this is classic Cult-level wine from pioneers in the category. Retails for $175/bottle at the winery.

190 cases produced
75% Cabernet, 15% Cab Franc, 9% Petit Verdot, 1% Merlot
60% new French oak
71% Rutherford, 25% Howell Mountain, 4% Calistoga
15% Alc.

It checks all boxes. They have vineyards in Rutherford, Howell Mountain, and Calistoga. They offer Cab Franc and merlot and grow Petit Verdot. The price point is essentially in the $175 range for the meritage. And I found a a few wines they do at 60% new french oak.

Now they also make cabs in the $30's...so let's hope that's not what we got.

EDIT: Or it could be Pine Ridge. But they have nothing in Calistoga and price point is not $175. I think one of those two though. Which one is a pioneer in the category? "Produced with no expense spared by one of Napa Valleys best winemakers in conjunction with one of Napa Valley's original cult wine families"
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1145 Post by David Crow » August 1st, 2020, 2:00 pm

Any ideas on what #5 is from (the Coombsville cab)?

Here is the description:

Everything I love about Coombsville Cabernet is here: the intriguing meaty florals, the lush richness on the palate.

N.05 features a complex nose of powdered flower, licorice, crushed red rock and coffee bean with pretty red plum and raspberry fruit notes riding a beefy, meaty core. Plump and juicy on the palate with plum, blackberry and cocoa atop a wave of finely tuned tannins that crashes out in a long, velvety finish. This is immensely pleasurable now and will age beautifully over the next 10 years.

100% Cabernet
420 cases produced
75% new French Oak
15.1% alcohol

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1146 Post by MatthewT » August 1st, 2020, 2:16 pm

David Crow wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 2:00 pm
Any ideas on what #5 is from (the Coombsville cab)?

Here is the description:

Everything I love about Coombsville Cabernet is here: the intriguing meaty florals, the lush richness on the palate.

N.05 features a complex nose of powdered flower, licorice, crushed red rock and coffee bean with pretty red plum and raspberry fruit notes riding a beefy, meaty core. Plump and juicy on the palate with plum, blackberry and cocoa atop a wave of finely tuned tannins that crashes out in a long, velvety finish. This is immensely pleasurable now and will age beautifully over the next 10 years.

100% Cabernet
420 cases produced
75% new French Oak
15.1% alcohol
too hard no clues
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1147 Post by Mike R » August 1st, 2020, 6:31 pm

Mike R wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 9:47 pm
Christopher Dunn wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 7:38 pm
Given all the excitement around these de Negoce offers, I bought a case of No. 12 (Chardonnay). I opened one this evening. If this is any indication, I might regret buying a case of No. 17 (cabernet). This chardonnay is harsh and lacking any depth. Some oaky guava, but not much else here. It reminds me of one of those airline chardonnays that come in the little plastic bottles. Instant headache. Really disappointing. 80pts, at best.
I bought a case of 12 as well; disappointing to hear this. I do think there is a chance this could be related to bottle shock, as the muted flavor you're referring to is common to bottle shock, and this wine was just made a week or two ago, and then got shipped across the country. My case of 12 got sent to the wrong address, so it's probably going to be cooked to death anyway by the time I get to it, but I wouldn't assume it is going to be a bad wine just yet.

With that said, I do think people would do well to manage their expectations a bit. The wines you are buying are most likely from smaller wineries that you have never heard of. There is a reason this costs $10 a bottle, drink it with that cost in mind, not whatever the suggest retail price is.
Big thanks to De Negoce for making the above referenced shipping issue right. They sent me another case to make up for the fact that the original went to the wrong address, which arrived yesterday. No heat damage at all to the wine from what I could tell, despite the high temps here lately and the fact that the wine was shipped cross country.

I tried a bottle of No. 12 tonight, and I have to agree that the wine is not enjoyable. It's oaky, harsh, simple, and sweet - it tastes like, well, a $10 dollar wine. This was the first of the 6 cases I have bought to arrive, with the rest on summer hold. I'm hoping that the No. 12 is just a bad wine, and not an indication of the quality of the other cases I have coming.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1148 Post by Michael Feldman » August 1st, 2020, 6:52 pm

Nate Simon wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 10:16 am
Michael Feldman wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 9:47 am
MatthewT wrote:
August 1st, 2020, 8:24 am
Sure enough, Anthem now has Malbec. And 55% New French Oak. $70

https://store.stfranciswinery.com/redwi ... nthem-2016
Curious why do you think the St Francis Meritage has any connection to the Anthem Winery/Cabernet?
Also as I ordered OG 17 which NAPA winery do you think it is?
Because St Francis makes it.
No mention on St. Francis site that their Anthem Meritage has anything to do with the Anthem Vineyard.

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Re: de Negoce offer

#1149 Post by rsmithjr » August 2nd, 2020, 6:37 am

Anthem Winery and the St. Francis Anthem Meritage are totally separate from what I can tell.

Does anyone remember how many cases of the Mt. Veeder #8 wine there were?

Has anyone tasted #6 Cabernet?
Last edited by rsmithjr on August 2nd, 2020, 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: de Negoce offer

#1150 Post by MatthewT » August 2nd, 2020, 6:51 am

rsmithjr wrote:
August 2nd, 2020, 6:37 am
Anthem Winery and the St. Francis Anthem Meritage are totally separate from what I can tell.

Does anyone remember how many cases of the Mt. Veeder #8 wine there were?
I have already said I screwed up and they have nothing to do with each other. But I'm quite certain #8 is Anthem.

He did not list the # of cases and it sold out super quickly. Not as fast as 11 but fast.
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