Your top five German wine producers

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Haven’t heard of Ratzenberger. Do they get imported to the U.S. or do you special order? I assume based on your preferences they do dry wines?

I am betting that Sara gets Ratzenberger through Moore Bros.

Yes, through Moore Brothers. They are way off the beaten track for most, though far from all, US Riesling lovers. Some of our dear WB friends in Germany and other parts of Europe know them a lot better. They are oddball in a lot of ways - holding back for late releases, for example - and they are more inconsistent than I’d like, but the highs are very high and they have some excellent holdings. They’ve been doing a lot with the dry wines since well before the GGs came to be, but they do some sweets as well and some very good sekt. The pure drinking pleasure is what Ratz is about for me. Not to say objective quality isn’t there as well, it just never gets in the way of the deliciousness factor.

Your top 5 was no surprise, my top 5 is probably similar. Moore Bros don’t ship unfortunately so I’m on an 8 year drought.

Didn’t know you were also a Ratz and Laible fan! Great wines, not redundant to anything else, even in a Riesling-heavy cellar. If you’re sitting on those guys with more than 8 years age, you’re to be envied. Lyle brings in some Laible now, if you didn’t know.

[maureen_nelson]

I don’t buy very expensive German wines but Keller makes some cheap and excellent wines such as Keller Riesling van der Fels, Feuervogel sylvaner, Scheurebe … they are not the “glorious top wines” costing an arm and a leg… but they are decent QPRs.

Obviously, the producers mentioned above also make cracking wines and many are easily available.

Having noted that 2019 from many top producers did not sell out while production was really down, I don’t believe prices are likely to explode except maybe for a few speculative wines… probably down to lack of traction of sweet wines… yet I love them and enjoyed a Himmelreich Kabinett 2017 tonight

I have been looking for Keller Scheurebe Kabinett for over a year in the US, since the Alt-Rieslingfeier dinner in NYC. No luck. I think Robert and the Riesling Kenner guys buy it all.

I would think you are right. However not because we are hogs because only a few cases come into the U.S. PM your address and I will send you a bottle.

No need to PM Robert, Jayson. I took care of it for you.

[James_Wright]

having been a pro for much of my career –
i need to pass over Falkenstein in the Saar because i used to sell them;
Gut Hermannsberg in the Nahe, same reason
and Lingenfelder is a great friend of mine…

so without any doubt

Koehler-Ruprecht –
Fritz Haag – many thanks to the late Wilhelm
Wirsching –
Dönnhoff –
Karthäuserhof –

and it really varies with the vintage –
the 1981 JJ Kabinett a great wine with ten years age,
and then Manfred released it again couple years later

my difficult friend Prinz Carl Friedrich von Löwenstein – Leo –
released a Frühburgunder from his Rheingau estate some fifteen years ago
that was one of the very finest German reds ever on my dance card
– like Marsannay from heaven –
unfortunately the stupid bastard managed to get himself killed in 2010
destroying an Aston-Martin GT-4 on the Nürburgring
leaving not just a widow, but four children under ten years of age…

[Claus_Jeppesen]

Breuer
Keller
Schönleber
Koehler Ruprecht
JJ Prüm

[G_Curd]

Mine is very similar to Mark Golodetz currently.

Prum



Max Ferd Richter
Willi Schaefer
Falkenstein

Everything else.

I’m kind of surprised you’re not 100% Prum

Haha. It was for a second, but I listened to the wise individuals on here that slowed me down and said diversify and you won’t be disappointed. Starting with you sir. Many thanks.

[G_Curd]

I have been looking for Keller Scheurebe Kabinett for over a year in the US, since the Alt-Rieslingfeier dinner in NYC. No luck. I think Robert and the Riesling Kenner guys buy it all.

I would think you are right. However not because we are hogs because only a few cases come into the U.S. PM your address and I will send you a bottle.

No need to PM Robert, Jayson. I took care of it for you.

I’m feeling the love. Maureen you are awesome.

[Howard_Cooper]

Dönnhoff
Dr. Bürklin-Wolf
Fritz Haag
Hofgut Falkenstein
Joh. Jos. Prüm

Dr. Bürklin-Wolf is a name I have not seen in a very long time. At one time, they were considered to be about the top producer in the Pfatz. What are their wines like now?

[David_Bu3ker]

Dönnhoff
Dr. Bürklin-Wolf
Fritz Haag
Hofgut Falkenstein
Joh. Jos. Prüm

Dr. Bürklin-Wolf is a name I have not seen in a very long time. At one time, they were considered to be about the top producer in the Pfatz. What are their wines like now?

Burklin-Wolf is producing excellent dry wines these days. I opened a 2019 several weeks ago that was excellent, and a good value. Lots more to taste through.

2019 Dr. Bürklin-Wolf Riesling Forst Riesling Village - Germany, Pfalz (1/6/2021)
Crisp, precise and with excellent length, this dry Riesling offers excellent value. There is significant depth, so it should age very well, allowing additional complexity to emerge after the youthful rush of fruit backs off just a bit. Very happy to have picked up six bottles.

[Charles_Weiss]

Joh. Jos. Prüm 34.2% Average vintage 2010.3
Selbach-Oster 7.5% Average vintage 2007.9
Joh. Jos. Christoffel Erben 5.9% Average vintage 2001.6
Von Schubert 5.9% Average vintage 2009.0
Vollenweider 4.9 Average vintage 2008.8

Next 5: Loosen, Falkenstein, Dönnhoff, Keller, Schäfer-Fröhlich

[DanielP]

Mine is very similar to Mark Golodetz currently.

Prum



Max Ferd Richter
Willi Schaefer
Falkenstein

Everything else.

I’m kind of surprised you’re not 100% Prum

Haha. It was for a second, but I listened to the wise individuals on here that slowed me down and said diversify and you won’t be disappointed. Starting with you sir. Many thanks.

To be fair, you probably wouldn’t be particularly disappointed if you were 100% Prum either

[A_Songeur]

I own wines from 25 producers, none Egon or Keller, although I enjoy the wines of both tremendously. 6 of the 25 are the Golden Generation introduced to us by Keller and Source Material.

I don’t buy very expensive German wines but Keller makes some cheap and excellent wines such as Keller Riesling van der Fels, Feuervogel sylvaner, Scheurebe … they are not the “glorious top wines” costing an arm and a leg… but they are decent QPRs.

Obviously, the producers mentioned above also make cracking wines and many are easily available.

Having noted that 2019 from many top producers did not sell out while production was really down, I don’t believe prices are likely to explode except maybe for a few speculative wines… probably down to lack of traction of sweet wines… yet I love them and enjoyed a Himmelreich Kabinett 2017 tonight

I beg to differ…Keller Feuervogel and Scheurebe are definitely glorious : )

I agree! …The reason why I wrote “glorious top wines” costing an arm and a leg… I keep both arm and leg which make them even more glorious…

[Mike_S_h_o_r]

Zilliken
(soon Max Ferd Richter here)
Schloss Lieser
Donnhoff
JJ Prum
Willi Schaefer

[Vince_T]

Because I was curious and bored (ok, mostly just bored, let’s be honest), I compiled the responses to see which producers were most represented.

I’m sure it’s no surprise to anyone, but JJ Prum comes out on top, making it onto 35 lists (out of 46), followed by:
Donnhoff & Willi Schaefer tied (24),
Selbach-Oster (15)
Falkenstein (14)
Keller (12)

When adding in a scoring weight (1st = 5 pts, 5th = 1pt) the rankings are:
Prum (134 pts, 18 firsts)
Donnhoff (83 pts, 5 firsts)
Willi Schaefer (72, 3 firsts)
Keller (48, 7 firsts)
Falkenstein (41, 4 firsts)

There were a total of 43 producers mentioned – pretty diverse! The top 20 were

rank producer score
1 JJ Prum 134
2 Donnhoff 83
3 Willi Schaefer 72
4 Keller 48
5 Falkenstein 41
6 Selbach-Oster 37
7 Schafer-Frolich 36
8 Fritz Haag 23
9 Emrich-Schonleber 17
10 M. F. Richter 15
11 Zilliken 14
12 Egon Muller 13
13 von Schubert 13
14 Schloss Lieser 9
15 Merkelbach 8
16 Burklin-Wolf 7
17 Julian Haart 7
18 Koehler Ruprecht 7
19 Lauer 6
20 Molitor 6

[Kirk.Grant]

Weingut Keller (35%)
Wittmann (17%)
Joh. Jos. Prüm (11%)
Kühling-Gillot (8%)
Weingut Seehof (5%)

[dvansteenderen]

By inventory:

1. Schloss Lieser
2. Egon Müller (2019 prices were killing already, hopefully they will not release the 2020 vintage with such another steep incline!)
3. Forstmeister Geltz-Zilliken
4. J.J. Prüm
5. Schätzel / Dönnhoff

8-10 years ago it would be Keller on top by a landslide.

By Prädikat:

1. Kabinett
2. Spätlese
3. Auslese
4. Auslese Lange Goldkapsel
5. Beerenauslese

8-10 years ago it would be G.G. on top by a landslide.

[Jurgen_Steinke]

Germany is more than just Riesling btw. …

[Mike_Evans]

My German holdings really fall into four tiers:

Joh. Jos. Prüm (36.6%)

Selbach-Oster (15.4%)
Dönnhoff (14.2%)

Keller (6.5%)

Immich-Batterieberg, Von Schubert, HGS Müller-Catoir, and about 20 other producers are each under 3%

[David_Bu3ker]

Germany is more than just Riesling btw. …

Yes, but Riesling certainly carries the banner.

[Jayson_Cohen]

Germany is more than just Riesling btw. …

Yes, but Riesling certainly carries the banner.

Not to mention that folks in this thread have discussed Sylvaner, Scheurebe, and Pinot Noir.

[David_Bu3ker]

Germany is more than just Riesling btw. …

Yes, but Riesling certainly carries the banner.

Not to mention that folks in this thread have discussed Sylvaner, Scheurebe, and Pinot Noir.

Yup. Got me thinking about a 2019 Catoir Scheurebe I have waiting to be opened.