Why do we not buy enough Champagne

[Ari_W]

This thread makes me think I have a different problem - I’m not drinking enough Champagne!

I enjoy it, but usually just buy it when I want it since, as others have noted, it always seems to be available. But, it sounds like I’m missing out, so I’d like to give drinking aged Champagne a try

For the folks who age Champagne, do you tend to do that only for vintage Champagnes, or also NV/MV? How long would you tend to age it for, and what characteristics are you looking for out of aging? How do you decide how long to age an NV/MV if there’s no disgorgement date on the bottle?

[teddemop]

I buy plenty! Wish I had room for more.

[Frank_Drew]

@Russ Williams

I started getting bit by the Champagne bug a few years ago and have been buying a lot thanks to Envoyer.

They’re a good source, Russ; most of my shipment from them in the Spring was Champagne.

[David_Bu3ker]

@Carlos Delpin

In my case it is the false sense of security that given most production numbers it is always available at either retail or auction. Since it is “always” available then I rather allocate the cellar space to something else.

Aging a “simple” NV (e.g. the Bolly Special Cuvee mentioned above) has great rewards, which is why I cellar so much NV Champagne in 750ml and especially magnums.

[Matt_Latuchie]

@D@vid Bu3ker

@Carlos Delpin

In my case it is the false sense of security that given most production numbers it is always available at either retail or auction. Since it is “always” available then I rather allocate the cellar space to something else.

Aging a “simple” NV (e.g. the Bolly Special Cuvee mentioned above) has great rewards, which is why I cellar so much NV Champagne in 750ml and especially magnums.

(emphasis mine)

as David noted above, if you want to age the bubbly (as that would be my recommendation), champagne seems to do especially well in large formats.

[Jay_Miller]

My Champagne buying has been steadily increasing (from a low base) for some years now. Unfortunately my Champagne consumption has kept pace so I’m not making much headway in my plan to age the stuff.

The fact that Arnold can’t drink it is another issue.

But some progress has been made.

[John_Danza]

@Ari W

For the folks who age Champagne, do you tend to do that only for vintage Champagnes, or also NV/MV? How long would you tend to age it for, and what characteristics are you looking for out of aging? How do you decide how long to age an NV/MV if there’s no disgorgement date on the bottle?

I mostly age NV bottlings because they’re cheaper to acquire for the most part. I’ve found that most will react very positively to ageing, such as complexity increasing by having the acidity balance out with the fruit. If you like bread dough flavors (I do a lot), I think they tend to come out more with ageing.

How long to age? I think you have to give them at least three years but more likely at least five years to see changes occur. If you can do 8-10 years, even better. As an example, I’m not a fan of Veuve Clicquot Yellow Label, but I bought some magnums at auction once that turned out to have 14 years of bottle age on them (I contacted the winery). They were excellent and much better than any VC I’ve had before.

As for disgorgement date, if you’re buying from a retailer that moves a fair amount of wine in general, it’s highly likely the champagne they have has been disgorged within the past year.

[rfelthoven]

@ERPark

Would you ladies and gentlemen please stop discussing the positive aspects of buying champagne? No need to bring more folks into the fold and increasing demand (therefore reducing supply)…

Increasing demand doesn’t decrease supply, it increases prices. Sorry to nitpick

[Chris_Seiber]

@Frank Murray III

I don’t seem to have this problem anymore. if anything, I can’t seem to get enough it.

It actually sounds like you’re agreeing with Alan, if you can’t seem get enough of it?

I think Alan raises an interesting question - I would guess it is extremely common among wine enthusiasts to perceive that they have a lot less Champagne than they “should.” Why is it? My guesses:

(1) Champagne, like Port, has always been, even in pre-internet times, easily available to pick up at the store when you want one, and you can pick up one that is ready to drink today. It’s not generally like Barolo or Bordeaux where you want to be buying bottles many years ahead of the day you open them. So you can drink Champagne pretty often without having much or any inventory of it in your cellar. Your local retailer can essentially be your Champagne cellar for you.

(2) It continues not to have broad acceptance as something other than for kicking off the evening or for a celebration event (New Year’s, celebrate a milestone, etc.). I’ve been to countless wine tasting dinners with many different groups of tasters, and they hardly ever have more than one or two Champagnes, usually as a starter while people gather and before people are really engaged with the tasting and before the actual tasting theme begins. I know some of you do it differently, or think people ought to use Champagne differently, but I think we all know that very few really do.

(3) It continues not to have much acceptance as a “whole dinner” or “whole evening” wine. Again, notwithstanding those few of you who feel otherwise or do otherwise yourselves. I think very few people, including among wine geeks and elite wine geeks, view Champagne as something to have through a whole meal.

(4) In my opinion, it doesn’t keep very well to subsequent days, which makes me reluctant to open Champagne at times when the whole bottle won’t be consumed that evening, which (see points 2 and 3 above) isn’t very often for me, or me and my wife.

(5) Champagne has a high floor to the price. You have to spend over $30 to get the very cheapest Champagne. While a good argument can be make about Champagne’s value proposition at various price points above that, the minimum price does present a barrier to people getting into Champagne and getting accustomed to the idea of it as a more frequent-use wine.

(6) Lastly, I think Champagne is one of those things where there is sometimes some discrepancy between what people say and what they actually think or do. Sort of like jazz music or The Wire - it’s one of those things that you’re expected to say that you adore, or which saying you adore makes you appear better and more sophisticated - but when you get home on Tuesday night after work and nobody’s looking, you listen to, watch or drink something more common. I’m not saying that of any particular one of you who are Champagne fans or who have posted in this thread, but I think there is some degree of that going on in the overall wine world.

It’s an interesting question. I don’t keep much Champagne on hand (I probably have 10-15 bottles total at a given time), and what I do seems to sit there for a long time waiting for a time to open it, yet I do get that nagging sense like Alan does that I “should” have more or drink it more often. Maybe I will get to that place someday, who knows.

[Michael_Davidson]

@Chris Seiber

(4) In my opinion, it doesn’t keep very well to subsequent days, which makes me reluctant to open Champagne at times when the whole bottle won’t be consumed that evening, which (see points 2 and 3 above) isn’t very often for me, or me and my wife.

For what very little it’s worth, I used to feel this way, but I no longer do. I leave leftover champagne uncorked in my fridge (the rubber stoppers I use for still wine normally get pushed out before the next day anyway), and it’s frequently better on the second day. It always retains bubbles. I’m a convert to multi-day champagne drinking.

Michael

[Neal.Mollen]

FWIW, I find that these things work very well on those (rare) occasions on which we don’t finish the bottle

[Dennis_Kanagie]

@Chris Seiber

Your local retailer can essentially be your Champagne cellar for you.

Bingo. That’s where I keep all my champagne - on the store’s shelf. Same place I used to keep things like curtains, coasters, and centerpieces when I was single. Must be a theme with things that start with the letter “C”.

[Scott_G_r_u_n_e_r]

@Chris Seiber

@Frank Murray III

I don’t seem to have this problem anymore. if anything, I can’t seem to get enough it.

(2) It continues not to have broad acceptance as something other than for kicking off the evening or for a celebration event (New Year’s, celebrate a milestone, etc.). I’ve been to countless wine tasting dinners with many different groups of tasters, and they hardly ever have more than one or two Champagnes, usually as a starter while people gather and before people are really engaged with the tasting and before the actual tasting theme begins. I know some of you do it differently, or think people ought to use Champagne differently, but I think we all know that very few really do.

Champagne IS only for celebrations. Thankfully I can always find a reason to celebrate. If all else fails, living another day is a good reason.

[Chris_Seiber]

@Michael Davidson

@Chris Seiber

(4) In my opinion, it doesn’t keep very well to subsequent days, which makes me reluctant to open Champagne at times when the whole bottle won’t be consumed that evening, which (see points 2 and 3 above) isn’t very often for me, or me and my wife.

For what very little it’s worth, I used to feel this way, but I no longer do. I leave leftover champagne uncorked in my fridge (the rubber stoppers I use for still wine normally get pushed out before the next day anyway), and it’s frequently better on the second day. It always retains bubbles. I’m a convert to multi-day champagne drinking.

Michael

How do you understand this to be happening? Are you developing a taste or a preference for the different way it tastes and feels on day two as compared to the old days? Or do you think you’re drinking better Champagne which holds up better to other days? Or do you think this technique (leaving it uncorked) is yielding better results than what you used to do?

With still wines, I’ve increasingly found satisfaction with partial bottles on days two and three, and I’ve found less and less need to take steps to preserve the wine in various ways (gas, vacuvin, pour into 375, refrigerate, etc.). I’m not sure how much of it is that my palate is now more appreciative of how wines taste on day two, or that I’m drinking wines that hold up better as compared to what I used to drink 10 years ago, or what.

[Neal.Mollen]

@Dennis Kanagie

@Chris Seiber

Your local retailer can essentially be your Champagne cellar for you.

Bingo. That’s where I keep all my champagne - on the store’s shelf. Same place I used to keep things like curtains, coasters, and centerpieces when I was single. Must be a theme with things that start with the letter “C”.

How many 1985, 1996, and even 2002 champagnes does you local wine shop currently stock? At what price?

Completely, totally disagree with this. If you age wine, you have to cellar wine. No less true of champagne than it is of barolo or St Julien

[Chris_Seiber]

@Neal.Mollen

Completely, totally disagree with this. If you age wine, you have to cellar wine. No less true of champagne than it is of barolo or St Julien

Do you disagree with that just in terms of what you prefer to do for yourself, or do you disagree that this is how most other wine enthusiasts go about it?

I actually like aged Champagne much more than young Champagne. I prefer the earthy, tea, mushroom and dough type flavors and mellower bubbles, though it seems pretty hit and miss how the bottles end up developing - it seems like less than half the time I have an older bottle, it’s developed into the way I like and hasn’t gone wrong somewhere (oxidized, flat, whatever). And I don’t think others around me, including my wife, seem to like the mature style very much even when it’s ended up relatively well.

[Neal.Mollen]

@Chris Seiber

@Neal.Mollen

Completely, totally disagree with this. If you age wine, you have to cellar wine. No less true of champagne than it is of barolo or St Julien

Do you disagree with that just in terms of what you prefer to do for yourself, or do you disagree that this is how most other wine enthusiasts go about it?

I actually like aged Champagne much more than young Champagne. I prefer the earthy, tea, mushroom and dough type flavors and mellower bubbles, though it seems pretty hit and miss how the bottles end up developing - it seems like less than half the time I have an older bottle, it’s developed into the way I like and hasn’t gone wrong somewhere (oxidized, flat, whatever). And I don’t think others around me, including my wife, seem to like the mature style very much even when it’s ended up relatively well.

Sorry I wasn’t clear. Lots of folks like fresh champagne – the way it tastes when it is released. If you have an excellent source locally, and this is how you’d like to drink your bubbles, using the store as your cellar makes sense.

I have 2 problems. First, that isnt how I prefer to drink the wines (although I love it all ways). So this isn’t an option for me.

Second, although I live in one of the best wine markets in the world, I can never be certain that I can find the wines I want locally at any given moment. Maybe I can find a suitable alternative, but if I want Clos des Goisses, the fact that they have C Bouchard won;t answer (or vice versa).

And I suppose there is a third reason: it is a hell of a lot easier for me to go down to my cellar than it is to go to the store when I want something

[John_Danza]

Chris, your analysis is really good and summarizes many of the sub-topics well. I have some thoughts on many of them.

@Chris Seiber

(1) Champagne, like Port, has always been, even in pre-internet times, easily available to pick up at the store when you want one, and you can pick up one that is ready to drink today. It’s not generally like Barolo or Bordeaux where you want to be buying bottles many years ahead of the day you open them. So you can drink Champagne pretty often without having much or any inventory of it in your cellar. Your local retailer can essentially be your Champagne cellar for you.

That’s true of the mindset of many, but that seems to be the case because people (even a lot of wine geeks among us) don’t treat champagne like “real wine”. The reason those on this board don’t let the local retailer be their Barolo cellar or Bordeaux cellar is because those wines aren’t at their best until they have some level of bottle age. Why shouldn’t that be true of champagne as well? The only difference is the bubbles. It’s still wine, made in the usual way. So if a person lets their local retailer be their champagne cellar, then they’re wasting their money. They may as well buy proseco or a spanish cava for a third of the price if all they’re looking for is something fizzy to start the evening.

@Chris Seiber

(2) It continues not to have broad acceptance as something other than for kicking off the evening or for a celebration event (New Year’s, celebrate a milestone, etc.). I’ve been to countless wine tasting dinners with many different groups of tasters, and they hardly ever have more than one or two Champagnes, usually as a starter while people gather and before people are really engaged with the tasting and before the actual tasting theme begins. I know some of you do it differently, or think people ought to use Champagne differently, but I think we all know that very few really do.

See my comment under number 1. Same thing.

@Chris Seiber

(3) It continues not to have much acceptance as a “whole dinner” or “whole evening” wine. Again, notwithstanding those few of you who feel otherwise or do otherwise yourselves. I think very few people, including among wine geeks and elite wine geeks, view Champagne as something to have through a whole meal.

This I get, probably because of the amount of carbonation if you had a dinner of 5-8 champagnes. That’s a lot of gas to consume (no snickering). But that still doesn’t mean champagne can’t be used for a course or two instead of just for the aperitif.

@Chris Seiber

(5) Champagne has a high floor to the price. You have to spend over $30 to get the very cheapest Champagne. While a good argument can be make about Champagne’s value proposition at various price points above that, the minimum price does present a barrier to people getting into Champagne and getting accustomed to the idea of it as a more frequent-use wine.

Yeah, kinda. There are actually a lot of decent, small producers showing up in the low-to-mid $20 range, depending on where you buy. I’m thinking NV champagnes, which are every bit as capable of rewarding ageing as vintage champagnes.

@Chris Seiber

(6) Lastly, I think Champagne is one of those things where there is sometimes some discrepancy between what people say and what they actually think or do. Sort of like jazz music or The Wire - it’s one of those things that you’re expected to say that you adore, or which saying you adore makes you appear better and more sophisticated - but when you get home on Tuesday night after work and nobody’s looking, you listen to, watch or drink something more common. I’m not saying that of any particular one of you who are Champagne fans or who have posted in this thread, but I think there is some degree of that going on in the overall wine world.

I think this goes back to number 1. It’s like people think champagne isn’t wine.

[Chris_Seiber]

Neil, I totally appreciate your approach. I was trying to talk about what I think is - and what is to the broader wine enthusiast world - whereas you’re talking about what should be or what is a better practice. I’d love to have a bunch of well-cellared 96, 95, 90, etc. from good producers in my cellar.

One other small thing - Champagne bottles don’t fit in most people’s cabinet racking. Yet another disincentive to loading up on Champagne, at least to those of us who store wines in these infernal devices.

[Chris_Seiber]

I think you’re entirely correct, John. I think most people have sparking wine in a very different category in their minds from wine generally. It’s like the distance from still wine to sparkling wine is 10x greater than the distance from red to white wine, or from pinot noir to cabernet. It’s more akin to the difference between wine and beer, or wine and spirits, in the way people view it.

I’m sure many of you have this experience, but if we have friends over for a family get-together or cookout, and you serve a Champagne, you usually get a look of surprise and then get asked “wow, are we celebrating something?” It’s definitely a different reaction than you would get serving them a glass of sauvignon blanc, chardonnay, pinot noir or any other still wine. That’s not to say they end up disliking it, or that you shouldn’t do it because your guests will find it unusual, but it does suggest the way people think of sparkling wine as being so different from still wine.