Wow, last time I looked it sold for $500-600. That wasn’t too long ago.
Faiveley bought the Dufouleur plot which allowed it to triple its area. I don’t know how it will impact the quality but the Dufouleur was not a great Musigny with Dufouleur admitting their Clos Vougeot was better than the Musigny most years.
Anyway, the new version will not drink well for the next 20 years, I assume (excluding infanticides)
Most of the wines recommended are $300 to over $8K, depending on the vintage. BTW, that’s one thing I like about Wine Searcher. If you don’t have time to look-up vintage ratings you can pretty much guess by looking at the prices on WS. The good vintages typically go for significantly more money.
I would add ECHEZEAUX and GRANDS ECHEZEAUX both by G NOELLAT and by Alix MILLOT (a bargain compared to the lists most of you are forwarding).
Generally speaking I agree with most lists and thus CHAMBERTIN and CLOS de BEZE (ROUSSEAU), BONNES MARES (ROUMIER), ROMANEE and ECHEZEAUX (bij LIGER BELAIR), RICHEBOURG and RSV (HUDELOT-NOELLAT), MUSIGNY (C de V, ROUMIER and MUGNIER), RICHEBOURG (GRIVOT) should but also LES SAINT GEORGES (CHEVILLON and Thibault L BELAIR) could be included.
SINCERELY GAUDISSABOIS JOHAN
Friends,
I see that most comments on Lamarche’s LA GRANDE RUE are not that favourable. Starting with the 2009 vintage Francois’ daughter has done a terrific job. The 2009 was in an blind tasting conducted with friends on par with the incredible LA ROMANEE. Further i think the RICHEBOURG by Tibault Liger belair is great too. I do not agree with some amongst you stating tha RICHEBOUR by Denis Mugneret was great. “WAS” because the parcel is now with its proprietor Thibault. I further state that both the RICHEBOURG and RSTV 91 by Hudelot Noellat are among the greatest Burgs I ever tasted. Parker gave the R-ST-V a meagre 89 points at the time. Clive Coates set the record straight 10 years later by awarding the wine a perfect 20 out of 20.
SINCERELY JOHAN
A fun thread, and glad to see it resurrected. In the year since it began, my choice is still the two Trapets (Rossignol and straight Trapet)but also Tremblay premier crus. A little extra for her Grand Crus would be well worth the investment.
In the last year, I have had more recent vintage Trapet a couple of times and can see why you like them so much. Much better than what I had a number of years ago. Still probably priced about twice what RT wines sell for, but of very high quality. I really liked their 2017s at the Paulee Grand Tasting this year.
Other Grand Crus that I have liked as relative values are Clos de la Roche and Charmes Chambertin from Pierre Amiot and Clos Vougeot from Hudelot-Noellat, although in the latter case the 2018s so far are much more expensive that the 2017s were (could be in part the impact of the tariffs). But, are these high end enough for what Jay wanted?
I love the wines of Cecile Tremblay, but are you arguing for them as just really high quality wines or as values - easy to see the first, much harder with the second.
Comte Liger-Belair:
La Romanee
if too expensive: Aux Reignots (or Les Suchots, or Petits Monts)
if still too expensive:
Les Chaumes
still cheaper:
Clos du Chateau
Vintage 2009 - if too expensive: 2007 (great now)
Any top end burgundy list IMHO should include:
Clos Vougeot and Echezeaux by Mugneret Gibourg
Clos de la Roche, Clos St Dennis by Ponsot
Clos Vougeot by HN
Johan, good call on G. Noellat and Millot.
Hudelot-Noellat Romanee St Vivant 2009 or 2010. If there is a more perfumed GC Burgundy that is reasonably accessible and likely to be genuine on the market, I don’t know what it is. trying to source some of these older Burgs at auction now is probably fraught with some risk. Does anyone believe that with the crazy Burgundy prices and lack of security features that lots of old GC Burgundy is certifiably genuine? Just because Rudy is in jail and Hardy is dead hardly means that things are really cleaned up. The lure of all that easy money seem to a siren call. I am constantly amazed at the seeming oceans of highly desirable Burgundy that shows up in practically every auction. I would almost never trust anything coming out of Hong Kong. Sorry but that part of the world seems…well, just a little suspect in terms of honesty right now.
This.
If I could have any non-DRC Burg, it would be a top wine from Domaine Leroy. I might actually even pick Leroy over DRC depending on the wine.
stuff from Comte Liger Belair and Leroy are often more expensive than DRC, so I would consider them in the same boat. if the goal is to talk about less cult-following and more reasonably priced selections (better value) there’s Thibault Liger Belair and Grivot.
On the CC side, there’s Dujac, Dugat-Py and Potel. And a mention to Bernstein, but he’s lifted the price to gouging territory in recent vintages.
Well said Paul - coming from a true wine lover! Man, other than the obvious reference to RC being the best of all time (just kidding) - La Tache, select Leroy bottlings, Rousseau Chambertin, and Mugnier Musigny (not in any particular order) has to round out the top 4 to 5 - with the Rousseau Beze at #6 maybe. You can see this in the market also - when supply is limited and demand high - the prices for these wines keep going through the roof.
I fully agree with Dennis concerning the HUDELOT-NOELLAT 2009. It is a brilliant wine. Both the RICHEBOURG and R-St-V are. Can’t wait to open another bottle.
I think that Tremblay’s premier crus are not good values, but they do have that quality to them, that when people ask for “the Burgundy experience” I find that that is a good place to steer them. I don’t know how she does it, but in mid palate, there’s a core of fruit and a lift which I associate with much more expensive wines like DRC.
A ton of suggestions here for Leroy, Roumier, Comte Liger-Belair, Mugnier Musigny, and similar $1,000++ wines. Perhaps the more interesting question, which some have answered, is: what Cotes de Nuits wines for $500 or less (hopefully much less–$500 is still an objectively huge amount of $$ to spend on a bottle of wine) regularly come close in quality to the unaffordable Burgundy trophy wines like DRC/Leroy/CLB? Here are some initial and extremely partial thoughts (some of these hover over $500 in certain vintages):
Dujac Clos de la Roche and Clos St. Denis
Hubert Lignier Clos de la Roche
Chevillon and Gouges Les Saint Georges
Bruno Clair Beze and Bonnes Mares
Fourrier Clos St. Jacques
Faiveley/Drouhin Beze
Bachelet Charmes
Arnoux Suchots
Domaine Trapet Chambertin
(If you want to go up to the $500-1,000 level, that opens up a lot more, like Mugneret-Gibourg’s Clos Vougeot and H-N’s Richebourg and RSV)
Friends,
Yesterday I had a wonderful RICHEBOURG 2011 by Thibault Liger Belair. Not a great vintage but Thibault really nailed it (his LES SAINT GEORGES was also superb). Since it is a lot cheaper than the here often named classic wines it is strongly adviced. My experience with TiBAULT and his wines are very possitive. The guy is really sympathetic. Not a necessity but it helps. A know a famous domaine in VOUGEOT where no matter how long you have been a client you’re always received as a newcomer. No names mentioned.
SINCERELY JOHAN
I am always interested in visiting a couple of domaines that are new to me when I visit Burgundy. Are you saying that I would be able to get an appointment to visit there if I write to him requesting a visit (obviously, this likely won’t be happening for a while given current world realities but I hope to go back to Burgundy multiple times in the future).
I visited there a couple years ago. Thibault told me that he gets hundreds of requests daily. I’m not sure if he was exaggerating or not but chances of getting in on your own by just writing him are probably slim.