Whats more important, wine or grammar

[Jay_Miller]

Depends on whether you’re talking, writing, or drinking.

I know that second comma is incorrect but you’re allowed to break the rules if you do it on purpose. One of the few areas where intent to break the rules works in your favor.

[Henry_Kiichli]

@Jay Miller

Depends on whether you’re talking, writing, or drinking.
I know that second comma is incorrect but you’re allowed to break the rules if you do it on purpose. One of the few areas where intent to break the rules works in your favor.

Not always. It is sometimes referred to as the Oxford Comma, also the serial comma.

I like it and use it.

[Jay_Miller]

@Henry Kiichli

@Jay Miller

Depends on whether you’re talking, writing, or drinking.
I know that second comma is incorrect but you’re allowed to break the rules if you do it on purpose. One of the few areas where intent to break the rules works in your favor.

Not always. It is sometimes referred to as the Oxford Comma, also the serial comma.

I like it and use it.

I like it too but I’ve been called out on it. I never know it was called the Oxford comma though. Thank you!

[dlee]

@GregT

Kind of depends. Wine is something you experience yourself. Even if you’re sharing with others, your perceptions of it are entirely in your own head. Grammar is how you present yourself to others, and most people spend more time talking, and in many cases writing, each day than they do drinking wine.

So if I had a kid, I’d want him to speak and write properly far more than I’d want him to enjoy wine. If he interviews for a job, they won’t necessarily know anything about wine but they’d hear him speak and perhaps read something he wrote.

A few weeks ago I interviewed a guy for a job that consisted mainly of writing. He seemed capable enough and then he said “I should have went . . .”

That took him out of the running.

Exactly how I feel!

[alan_weinberg]

@Jay Miller

I never know it was called the Oxford comma though. Thank you!

" . . . comma, though."

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

“It’s ‘aoow’ and ‘garn’ that keep her in her place. Not her wretched clothes or dirty face.”
~ Henry Higgins

Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, but…Grammar is important. People make judgments about others based on how we speak or write. Whether this practice is admirable or not, it is unavoidable, and can negatively impact careers, among other things. Judgments based on wine knowledge are less common.

To me, there are some grammar mistakes that are far worse than others. The current and ubiquitous use, even in erudite news programs and the like, of the nominative case as the object of a preposition, or where the objective case is otherwise needed, drives me up a wall. It can NEVER be correct to say “for my wife and I” or “he called Jimmy and I.” It’s just wrong. Someone recently said to me “Oh, I think that has been officially changed.” It can’t be changed. How pronoun case is determined is a key structural element of the language. It particularly bugs me because people do it because they think it sounds more proper. It’s so easy to check yourself, too: take the other person or people out of the phrase and you’ll get it right every time. No one says “for I” or “he called I.”

That one is definitely more important than wine. Things like parallelism, the meaning of the word “hopefully,” use of the possessive before a gerund…I’ve pretty much given up.

As an aside, grammar and punctuation are two different things.

[alan_weinberg]

@Sarah Kirschbaum

“It’s ‘aoow’ and ‘garn’ that keep her in her place. Not her wretched clothes or dirty face.”
~ Henry Higgins

Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, but…Grammar is important. People make judgments about others based on how we speak or write. Whether this practice is admirable or not, it is unavoidable, and can negatively impact careers, among other things. Judgments based on wine knowledge are less common.

To me, there are some grammar mistakes that are far worse than others. The current and ubiquitous use, even in erudite news programs and the like, of the nominative case as the object of a preposition, or where the objective case is otherwise needed, drives me up a wall. It can NEVER be correct to say “for my wife and I” or “he called Jimmy and I.” It’s just wrong. Someone recently said to me “Oh, I think that has been officially changed.” It can’t be changed. How pronoun case is determined is a key structural element of the language. It particularly bugs me because people do it because they think it sounds more proper. It’s so easy to check yourself, too: take the other person or people out of the phrase and you’ll get it right every time. No one says “for I” or “he called I.”

That one is definitely more important than wine. Things like parallelism, the meaning of the word “hopefully,” use of the possessive before a gerund…I’ve pretty much given up.

As an aside, grammar and punctuation are two different things.

love it. Well-stated and erudite!

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

Robert,

I answered the question as asked: What’s more important, wine or grammar? It was an odd question, but the one asked. If the point was to ask grammarians to lighten up because everyone could understand what he was saying, he genuinely did not communicate that to me: a case in point.

Jay,
Most journals and publishing houses I’ve worked with (therefore academic and out of touch, of course) demand the comma before “and” or “or,” I expect exactly for the reason demonstrated. It’s the opposite of incorrect.

[Henry_Kiichli]

@Jonathan Loesberg

demand the comma before “and” or “or,” I expect exactly for the reason demonstrated. It’s the opposite of incorrect.

Thank you.


In most instances, for the sake of clarity, it comes in handy.

[Mark_B]

As you may have guessed, my last name is of Hungarian descent. My father was a first generation immigrant who legally entered the country and gained full US citizenship in the late 70’s.
He spoke next to zero English when he came here. Through many decades of hard work and perseverance, he has become fluent in conversational English, yet frequently struggles with spelling and written grammar. While typing, he will regularly ask me to spellcheck his work. Regardless of his grammatical shortcomings, he is someone I deeply respect and admire, as well as someone who has served as a great parent, provider, and friend. Proper grammar is an infinitesimal part of this equation.

When it comes to wine, the correlation between grammar and enjoyment is almost non-existent. Wine Berserkers benefits most from people with imagination and a zest for life: two things the OP is certainly not lacking.

[J_Singleton]

I’m pretty suprised that the poll is as skewed as it is. Good thing I sit at my computer and consult my AP Stylebook before hitting send. I come here to read about wine, not to worry about dangling participles. If that’s of greater importance, I’d go hang out on Grammarberserkers.

[Thomas_Keim]

My grammar passed away a few years ago.

So did my grandpa…

[Paul_Miller]

.

[M_Sai]

@GregT

@M. Sai

@J. Singleton

Wine. Grammar correctors are as bad as those who troll. Pointing out mistakes is typically not done to help the individual who made the error, but rather to make the observer feel good about being right.

^^this

But nobody said anything about correcting anyone. Preferring is not the same as correcting. Sometimes I’d prefer it if a restaurant prepared a dish differently from what they served, but I don’t go into the kitchen and correct the cook.

That’s a noble notion, however I doubt Alan would have started this thread without a history of constantly being corrected on this board by people who cannot help themselves.

@GregT

If someone graduates from high school, there shouldn’t really be a problem with grammar.

I love the constant assumption that less than perfect grammar is directly related to laziness and/or lack of education.

[Henry_Kiichli]

@M. Sai

“LOOSE one turn”?

[Michael_Martin]

I think most people overlook little things in posts and let most things go, but there are some posters that are so bad that it just makes it hard to understand what they are saying. To me, that is a big distraction.

[Dav_d_Parta_n]

Me just block them, their, grammerbastiges

[John_Morris]

I think we need a new acronym: PWE = punctilious wine elite.

[Henry_Kiichli]

@John Morris

I think we need a new acronym: PWE = punctilious wine elite.

We can amend the old one:

AFiWE

Anti Functionally illiterate Wine Elite

[Mark_B]

King Pin - Dictionary Salesman