Whats more important, wine or grammar

WINE TALK
61

Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? If one is able to learn the nuances of wine down to the smallest detail, one can surely learn the intricacies of the English language.

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Oh look, now Paul Miller is a philosophizer. :stuck_out_tongue:

64

And do you account for our fellow Berserkers whose first language is not English or that live in foreign countries? I like Mark B’s post above, sorta reminds me of my own father. Born in Cuba, educated in America, had a great career as an aerospace engineer. One of the brightest, most analytical minds that I have met, and notably the person that introduced me to many of the finer things in life, including wine, travel, open-mindedness to other cultures. I’m guessing now that many here would think lesser of him if he posted as his grammar can be spotty at times. You would not really know he is foreign, as he lives here and does not have a Cuban-sounding last name, plus he has a deep vocabulary, so many of the grammar folks would just think he’s not so smart. I totally get the value judgments we make in the real world, especially the business world - many of the posts above with contractions, odd ellipsis usage, inconsistency in punctuation, etc., would drive me nuts in formal business writing or publications - but like Jeb, I come here to escape, to learn, have fun, participate, and I know at times I have spelling errors, grammatical mistakes and the like. Errors in posting, so long as the post is comprehensible, do not bother me at all.

65

That is not applicable to the OP- who while not born in America- grew up in the UK with English as his first language. I have a tremendous acceptance and patience for those who speak English as a second language, but when it is your mother tongue, such willful disregarding of the nuances of English is either a sign of contempt for the language, or sheer laziness.

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Obviously there is no sense in nitpicking typos, but when someone points out something I’m doing wrong I’m always appreciative. I’ve had grammatical errors pointed out and I no longer make those errors. When I learn something new like that I consider it a good day.

67

Well said Robert. I will add that many people battle various forms of language deficiencies and their mind just works differently. I’ve managed a mild form of dyslexia since grade school which manifests itself in many different ways. Creating a relatively error-free paragraph takes effort, concentration and heavy reliance on Word’s spell check. I happened to land in a professional field that is dependent on the written word, so I’m well practiced at catching my tendencies for types of errors, etc. However, I can easily understand those who are similar in deficiency but work in a field that doesn’t require constant writing. Without developing a support system and strict practice, “the intricacies of the English language” can be as mystifying as playing an instrument for a non-music person.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Those than cannot relax and recognize that we are here to have inclusive discussions about wine are saying more about their character than they realize.

68

Not to be combative, but how often have you seen someone criticize a specific poster for poor English? I think it is pretty rare. Usually the topic comes up in a general way – as in this thread – and various people weigh in… e.g., “now that you mention it, it is amazing that so many people who apparently made it out of the fourth grade don’t know how to use a freaking apostrophe.” And then someone feels personally insulted, and starts ranting about how “this ain’t English class after all.”

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This thread on a wine BB [barf1.gif]

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Like a lot of topics on this board there’s often a common thread throughout them that may not be obvious. When reading the original post, I just thought back to other instances where the poster basically stated that the shorthand writing and lack of grammar was simply out of expediency - they could write more formally if they desired, but they won’t because they don’t have the time for it. These types of meta discussions are frequent on internet boards and at the risk of being too serious, I tend to treat forums and community boards like a “common space”. Keep it tidy and take care of it for others’ sake. Sure - we could all right shorthand and be “heard” although perhaps not quite as “understood”. But more than anything we might do it for someone else’ benefit, not merely our own.

…and frankly, when people post shorthand I figure that it must not be particularly important. If the poster didn’t think it was all that important and wasn’t worth their time, then why should anyone else?

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Id be interested to know how many of the saints with perfect grammar are as perfect in every area of their lives.

My less than perfect grammar has not held me back at any stage of my career, i work with people and technology both things that dont care about apostrophe’s. In todays world of FB and SMS who writes long emails or letters anymore. The only thing that bother’s me is that everyone seems to be calling me stupid and lazy just because of my grammar, none of these people have any idea who i am or what i do on a daily basis. I am not going to get into it but everyone should be a lot less judgemental about a person they dont know. With regards to the laziness comments, i would argue the opposite, if you have all day to sit around contemplating commas then you need to get out more and get a real job or a new hobby.

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Alan! [wow.gif]

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Just as with the other heated but superficial threads here, it’s just a matter of a few more posts, before this wine vs. grammar discussion morphs into somebody challenging another poster to some form of a monetary bet or a hand-to-hand combat.

[stirthepothal.gif]

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Why not haz both!??

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It was not me, my account was hacked [oops.gif] [oops.gif] [oops.gif] [oops.gif]

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[truce.gif] [truce.gif] [truce.gif] [truce.gif]

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Alan- you ask what many assume to be an honest question, and then get upset when people give an honest answer. If it was merely rhetorical, and was posted simply for the sake of getting people to accept your grammatical shortcomings, you should have made that more clear.

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It isn’t that people are calling you stupid and lazy as much as they are telling you your poor grammar makes you look stupid and/or lazy. You’ve now spent more time dragging your heals and rationalizing your poor grammar then it would have taken you to learn a few basic rules.

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How do you feel about spelling?

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Again, it seems to me that the anti-grammarians are judging others far more than any grammar cops.