What’s going on with Napa? Questions and concerns

[Ian_Dorin]

Interesting, Prisoner was in one of those top spots. Also curiously, Larkmead for a long time too!

[larry_schaffer]

@JBierly

I pick on Caymus also, although I admit I will drink it - it’s pretty good with a steak! What’s interesting is how truly popular it is - indeed a cursory look at cellar tracker shows that for California Reds Caymus has 6 of the top 10 spots for bottles held with Insignia holding the other 4 spots.

I believe it has to be the ‘most picked on’ wine by wine snobs everywhere

[B_Davies]

so the colder wines… experienced…

arrested development?

[Adam_Frisch]

Tied secondly with Silver Oak.

[larry_schaffer]

@Adam_Frisch

Tied secondly with Silver Oak.

Not even close anymore. Folks may not feel that Silver Oak is ‘worth it’, but the whipping boy for ‘modern CA winemaking’ is certainly Wagner Family Wines these days.

Cheers

[G_D_y_e_r]

@larry_schaffer , were you able to extract an activation energy for any of the tannin or anthocyanin metrics you tracked?

That would be incredibly useful, since for at least some characteristics of development, acceleration factors could be determined. So for every 10 C change in cellar temp, one could estimate the impact on a wine’s life.

For semiconductor devices, the rule of thumb is ~2x reduction in use life per 10 C increase in temperature. It depends quite a bit on the failure mode’s activation energy in reality (Ea ~ 0.7 to 0.8 eV corresponds to the 2x per 10 C), hence more quantified estimate regarding the mechanism that eventually kills the wine would be quite useful.

Probably tricky since degradation of fruit esters, precipitation of potassium bitartrate, tannin polymerization, etc. certainly must have unique activation energies. And may be coupled to multiple catalyzing factors.

[Robert_M_yers]

That’s fascinating Larry (and Mike) I made a new thread and I hope you might expand there. Didn’t want to go that far off the rails with my thought here.

Hey Kelvin…Would it be possible to suspend the development of a wine?

Was thinking about when a wine reaches its apogee, would it be possible to hold that wine in place. My thought was if you could hold it at just above freezing temp maybe you could save it as long as one wished. …but would this unnatural process of the accepted rate of aging @55 degrees be offensive to the curve? (And accepted community values) This a bit of a cross post from a thought I had in the Napa thread.

[larry_schaffer]

Greg,

Nope, I did not. My research revolved around tannin development and that’s what I focused in on - tannins, other phenolics, anthocyanins and especially polymeric pigment development.

Cheers

[Gray_G]

@Jason_T

killing your palate by smoking?
how expensive is Napa Cabernet in London?

[J_Patrick_Lynch]

@larry_schaffer

but the whipping boy for ‘modern CA winemaking’ is certainly Wagner Family Wines these days.

Idk Larry, I read upthread that MacDonald is pretty overrated.

[Jonathan_Jaggers]

@J_Patrick_Lynch

Idk Larry, I read upthread that MacDonald is pretty overrated.

It truly is. People should drop off the list in droves so I can get on!

[Pat_Esposito]

I can let you judge at the AFC North get together, maybe we’ll open the much maligned '14 vintage

[mike_pobega]

This seems like the place to ask so ask I will.
Anyone hear about smoke taint in 2020 Napa Cabs?

[David_Baum]

AFC North? I thought it was the Carter Coronation!

[Mark_Smith_65]

It is something to be concerned about but I can only share my experience.

I have had several bottles from Quivet Cellars and Carter Cellars and they were incredible with great purity and depth of flavor. Not a hint of taint.

[J_Rock]

OK, “Mark” Smith … Seriously though, I agree.

[Ian_Dorin]

Your post reminded me of something.

There is actually a reasonably famous bottle of wine that is out there that has smoke taint, and has only developed further over time-

2008 Marcassin Chardonnay

They didn’t produce a Pinot that year, and cut the Chardonnay production by 75%. I had the Chardonnay in 2017 (as part of a blind tasting), and it was with a bunch people who weren’t wine experts, but not newbies either. Every single person in the room picked up on it. It was quite strong.

If you all recall, it got 100 points from Robert Parker too.

My point for bringing this up is that it might not be there now, but it could develop later on. Not saying these wines have it buried in the wine, but might be wise to enjoy them young to not chance it.

[Jonathan_Jaggers]

I have a feeling that just like Myles, it will take home the MVP!

[Mark_Smith_65]

I like your comment. No relation and, more importantly, no discount.

[HoosJustinG]

@larry_schaffer

the whipping boy for ‘modern CA winemaking’ is certainly Wagner Family Wines

Ok but also … deservedly so. Their winemaking approach aims for consistency over all else, which can only be achieved in the cellar to smooth out differences in vintage/vineyards/etc. They want to make sure - and, to be clear, I think this is 100% the right business decision - their new vintage tastes just like the one you ordered 3 months ago. They sell oceans of wines to steakhouses whose customers have specific expectations for what the wine will taste like and are generally drinking the wine very soon after release. They can’t have some vintages be “early drinking” and others be “tightly wound.”

Wine appreciation … theoretically what we’re all into here on an enthusiast board … aims to understand how those differences (the ones they want to smooth out/erase) translate into the glass. Whether those differences are significant enough to appreciate, I suppose is up to interpretation So clearly they’re going to be a whipping boy…