Vermouth!! Finally launched

[TGigante]

But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.

Nonsense, that’s just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO

Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. Wtf.

That is known as a Martinez.

[David_Patte]

I had the chance to try David’s vermouth last night. Wow!

What an eye opener. So different than “my father’s vermouth.” I am a big fan of a classic gin martini, where the glass gets to see the Vermouth bottle, but that is about it. As a result, Vermouth last a LONG time in my house, and I usually end you throwing out 2/3 full bottles. This is a totally different beast, and really enjoyable. Perhaps the closest thing I have is Cocchi Americano, which I also really like, but it is not a direct comparable.

David’s is absolutely something I would drink straight.

Still, David, I am curious to know: would you use it for mixing? What would you mix with it? It seems more suitable to a Manhattan than a Martini, but wondering if you have any other ideas? (Sounds like Negroni is the way to go, based on the above comments!)

A classic martini has vermouth likely in a 1 to 3 ratio with gin. You may prefer a hint of vermouth, but that isn’t classic.

You are aware of dry vermouth I hope.

Yep, sweet vermouths apparently are north of 10-12% residual sugar, and dry vermouth is under 4% (but hardly ever completely dry, hard to know exactly because most recipes are kept secret). We’re right around the 4% range but a bit higher because we have a fairly high bitter (wormwood and others) and herbal component in addition to the floral and fruit botanicals.

[David_Patte]

But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.

Nonsense, that’s just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO

Right— I was just channeling the whole Churchill martini trend which I have adhered to and seems prevalent around our friends. From Difford’s Guide “ Legend has it that Sir Winston Churchill liked his Martinis served without the vermouth actually being added to the drink, just present in the same room. He is quoted as saying of the drink, “Glance at the vermouth bottle briefly while pouring the juniper distillate freely.”

[Siun_O_Connell]

If you have not seen it, you might find this article from 2017 NYT interesting and I’d also suggest a look at Matthiasson’s page on his vermouth since he is quite informative about his approach … then taste his since it is delicious!

The Ideal Aperitif: Good Vermouth, Cool and Fragrant (Published 2017)

[Pau1_M3nk3s]

Two pretty different audiences. I can tell you that I drink Manhattans most nights and I look to Cocktail books and Instagram for my inspiration. Generally centered on Carpano Antica and a Dolin/Punt e Mes mix (suggested by Death & Co), although I’ve picked up Drapo (Italy) and Vermouth del Professor based on recommendations from stores with liquor sections I trust.

I think it will be much easier (and cheaper) for you to target your audience using Facebook/IG demographic filters for social media campaigns. Find a couple of influencers on the cocktail side and/or do a give away. Would love to help, but at ~420 followers (primarily for steak/pork chops), I’m not your guy

More thread drift: Andrew, I had no idea that Vermouth del Professore was available in the U.S. What’s your source?

[Andrew_Kotowski]

La Maison du Whisky

[Pau1_M3nk3s]

La Maison du Whisky

Well, in that case, next time I’m in Sammamish I’ll be grabbing a spare bottle from you!

[Andrew_Kotowski]

La Maison du Whisky

Well, in that case, next time I’m in Sammamish I’ll be grabbing a spare bottle from you!

I lived in Paris (recently) for a couple of years. My supply is tapped, and COVID hasn’t helped things from a restocking perspective.

[Russell_Faulkner]

There are loads of Spanish Vermut worth exploring.

[David_Patte]

If you have not seen it, you might find this article from 2017 NYT interesting and I’d also suggest a look at Matthiasson’s page on his vermouth since he is quite informative about his approach … then taste his since it is delicious!


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/18/dining/vermouth-the-ideal-aperitif.html

Thanks! Eric A does a great job explaining the vermouth ethos. I have definitely been inspired by Bianca Miraglia “Uncouth Vermouth” and have tried hers (great interview on the “I’ll Drink to That” podcast). Will check out Matthiasson, but I like Bianca’s quote: “It should be a creative exploration of whoever is making it”

[David_Patte]

There are loads of Spanish Vermut worth exploring.

Russell Faulkner on Instagram: "#Vermut! #Vermouth #SpanishVermouth #RedVermouth #Lustau #LaCopa #Goyesco #Pimpillo #Golfo #SanBernabe #Perucchi #Siderit #Ataman #MonDieu #Petroni #Zecchini #LotOfVermouth"

Indeed!

[Paul_Miller]

There are loads of Spanish Vermut worth exploring.

Russell Faulkner on Instagram: "#Vermut! #Vermouth #SpanishVermouth #RedVermouth #Lustau #LaCopa #Goyesco #Pimpillo #Golfo #SanBernabe #Perucchi #Siderit #Ataman #MonDieu #Petroni #Zecchini #LotOfVermouth"

I would have a blast just taste testing through all of those

[Andrew_Kotowski]

There are loads of Spanish Vermut worth exploring.

Russell Faulkner on Instagram: "#Vermut! #Vermouth #SpanishVermouth #RedVermouth #Lustau #LaCopa #Goyesco #Pimpillo #Golfo #SanBernabe #Perucchi #Siderit #Ataman #MonDieu #Petroni #Zecchini #LotOfVermouth"

I swear, you’re on the short list of people I want visit and drink/eat with!

[Russell_Faulkner]

Ha. Please come. But we drank those in a couple of weeks.


Lockdown!

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.

Nonsense, that’s just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO

Right— I was just channeling the whole Churchill martini trend which I have adhered to and seems prevalent around our friends. From Difford’s Guide “ Legend has it that Sir Winston Churchill liked his Martinis served without the vermouth actually being added to the drink, just present in the same room. He is quoted as saying of the drink, “Glance at the vermouth bottle briefly while pouring the juniper distillate freely.”

I don’t have a problem with people drinking ice cold, dilute gin. No need to pretend it’s a martini.

Also, a NYT article on blanco vermouth especially Dolin https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/dining/vermouth-blanc-bianco-cocktails.html
In PA, the state only carried Dolin rouge and blanc. Now they carry all three but have yet to seen the dry in a 375.
Ordered a martini at Eddie V’s and they only carried the Dolin blanc as a “white” vermouth. Really bad and warm to boot.

[Kris_Patten]

Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.

That said, there are quite a few locally produced Vermouths, and the recipe for success mostly seems to be the same as for small wineries. Stay enthused in your work, and plan on/hope for a Sonny Rollins lifestyle.

Those Vinum days…hard to break away. I’m lucky to have sold Carpano for quite a while and their new Clasico, Bianco, and Extra Dry line are really best value/quality IMO. Dolin is a bit too cloying personally.

As to the topic, if you’re looking for inexpensive Vermouth, Cinzano always came out best in taste tests. If you’re willing to branch out Routin, Lacuesta, Mancino, and Yzaguirre offer interesting alternatives.

Its becoming more popular as a stand alone along with a cocktail enhancer…I quite enjoy Vermouth and soda.

[David_Patte]

Nonsense, that’s just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO

Right— I was just channeling the whole Churchill martini trend which I have adhered to and seems prevalent around our friends. From Difford’s Guide “ Legend has it that Sir Winston Churchill liked his Martinis served without the vermouth actually being added to the drink, just present in the same room. He is quoted as saying of the drink, “Glance at the vermouth bottle briefly while pouring the juniper distillate freely.”

I don’t have a problem with people drinking ice cold, dilute gin. No need to pretend it’s a martini.

Also, a NYT article on blanco vermouth especially Dolin https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/13/dining/vermouth-blanc-bianco-cocktails.html
In PA, the state only carried Dolin rouge and blanc. Now they carry all three but have yet to seen the dry in a 375.
Ordered a martini at Eddie V’s and they only carried the Dolin blanc as a “white” vermouth. Really bad and warm to boot.

Thanks for the NYTimes article. Hadn’t seen this one. My thinking to date is that my base wine will be a rosé to visually represent that the recipe is between the red and the dry (similar to what is described in the article for the blancs/biancos). Also it’s beautiful in clear bottle and sets us apart a bit…

[Brent_C_l_a_y_t_o_n]

A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean ‘sweet’ vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, ‘red’ vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David’s product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.

[Kris_Patten]

A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean ‘sweet’ vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, ‘red’ vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David’s product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.

When I’m “not drinking” I’ll have vermouth and soda in a tall glass. In reading thru some of this it doesn’t necessarily seem like David is producing Vermouth, more of an aromatized wine akin to Lillet.

This category needs to figure out how to get 2 or 3 oz. in a glass, not 0.5 oz.

I’d be looking to partner with a craft soda producer.

[Brent_C_l_a_y_t_o_n]

Kris,

Are you familiar with St Agrestis out of Brooklyn? They have really taken off. They started with an amaro, moved into RTD cocktails, and now have an apertivo and RTD spritz.

That is definitely the way to go!