Vermouth!! Finally launched

[David_Patte]

Vermouth for sipping became trendy here in Chicago more than 10 years ago with places like Sable having several on tap and a list of many to chose from. I have drunk Vermouth on the rocks as my preferred cocktail for … hmmmm … a lot of years … since the early 80s actually. Several winemakers already produce their own and in the artisanal cocktail scene there are a number of small makers … I remember the former cocktail manager at The Kitchen gave me one from a father and daughter team producing small batches. Matthiasson makes a lovely one too. Could vermouth become a trend … I think the influencer suggestion is smart. Also, once restaurants and bars really reopen, a solid program to build a following amongst more innovative restaurant drinks programs would provide the intro such a product would need. That takes a decent investment to break through.

Thanks— I think you’re right, it will be easier to market through bars and restaurants. It may just sit on a retail shelf forever unless I can schedule in-store tasting events (hopefully in 2022; dare we hope for Fall 2021 even?)

[RichardFlack]

David:

I’m certainly no expert. But I think your main challenge is appealing to a younger demographic. When I think of vermouth, I think of two things: a Martini and a Manhattan. Both of those speak to me of an older, more “corporate,” urbane audience. I don’t drink those cocktails and don’t drink vermouth.

Vermouth feels like something for hardcore drinker or trendy mixologist – consumed in darkened bars or paneled home study. How do you broaden it’s appeal so it feels like something lighter, more “summery”? Something with a spritzer or whatever? I don’t have the answers, but those feel like the questions I would be trying to muddle through. Just my two cents. Good luck.

Negroni also (red vermouth) - not sure of the demographic on that. My go to summer cocktail.

But I mostly use in cooking (dry vermouth) , various dishes : Veal Marengo, Seafood pasta (loosely derived from Scampi Provencale) etc, a lot of dishes as an alternative to white wine.

[AstridKG]

Will do! We came up with a brand name “Tourmaline” which is a rose-colored gemstone (and happens to be my wife’s birthstone, so that’s a nice tie-in). Not Trademarked and that seems fine…

Just FYI, not all tourmaline are rose colored. The most famous of them all, the paraiba, is a glowing bluish green.

[David_Patte]

Will do! We came up with a brand name “Tourmaline” which is a rose-colored gemstone (and happens to be my wife’s birthstone, so that’s a nice tie-in). Not Trademarked and that seems fine…

Just FYI, not all tourmaline are rose colored. The most famous of them all, the paraiba, is a glowing bluish green.

Yes good point! “Can be rose colored”

[David_Patte]

David:

I’m certainly no expert. But I think your main challenge is appealing to a younger demographic. When I think of vermouth, I think of two things: a Martini and a Manhattan. Both of those speak to me of an older, more “corporate,” urbane audience. I don’t drink those cocktails and don’t drink vermouth.

Vermouth feels like something for hardcore drinker or trendy mixologist – consumed in darkened bars or paneled home study. How do you broaden it’s appeal so it feels like something lighter, more “summery”? Something with a spritzer or whatever? I don’t have the answers, but those feel like the questions I would be trying to muddle through. Just my two cents. Good luck.

Negroni also (red vermouth) - not sure of the demographic on that. My go to summer cocktail.

But I mostly use in cooking (dry vermouth) , various dishes : Veal Marengo, Seafood pasta (loosely derived from Scampi Provencale) etc, a lot of dishes as an alternative to white wine.

Our recipe is great in a Negroni among others, and neat or on ice with a twist of lime. “Best Negroni I’ve ever had” said a cocktail-loving friend, so I think we’re on the right path

[Mark_Mo_rr_i_ss_ette]

I had the chance to try David’s vermouth last night. Wow!

What an eye opener. So different than “my father’s vermouth.” I am a big fan of a classic gin martini, where the glass gets to see the Vermouth bottle, but that is about it. As a result, Vermouth last a LONG time in my house, and I usually end you throwing out 2/3 full bottles. This is a totally different beast, and really enjoyable. Perhaps the closest thing I have is Cocchi Americano, which I also really like, but it is not a direct comparable.

David’s is absolutely something I would drink straight.

Still, David, I am curious to know: would you use it for mixing? What would you mix with it? It seems more suitable to a Manhattan than a Martini, but wondering if you have any other ideas? (Sounds like Negroni is the way to go, based on the above comments!)

[Pat_P]

Dolin is my go to Vermouth but would love to find a less mass produced one for sure.

[David_Patte]

I had the chance to try David’s vermouth last night. Wow!

What an eye opener. So different than “my father’s vermouth.” I am a big fan of a classic gin martini, where the glass gets to see the Vermouth bottle, but that is about it. As a result, Vermouth last a LONG time in my house, and I usually end you throwing out 2/3 full bottles. This is a totally different beast, and really enjoyable. Perhaps the closest thing I have is Cocchi Americano, which I also really like, but it is not a direct comparable.

David’s is absolutely something I would drink straight.

Still, David, I am curious to know: would you use it for mixing? What would you mix with it? It seems more suitable to a Manhattan than a Martini, but wondering if you have any other ideas? (Sounds like Negroni is the way to go, based on the above comments!)

Thanks Mark! The goal is twofold: a great vermouth, in a classic regional, European style, has the complexity and flavors from the floral, fruit, herb and bitter botanicals that make a great aperitif on its own (chilled neat, or on ice, with or without a twist of lime). But also this vermouth should take a Negroni, Manhattan and other cocktails to new heights! I have a cocktail-loving friend who told me our vermouth recipe made the “best Negroni” he’s ever had. So I think we’re on the right path!

But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.

[David_Patte]

Lots of Dolin and Cocchi references. Here a the tasting notes on these two (from JRobinson newsletter). Ours will be less sweet and we’ll keep the recipe somewhat of a secret, but it will not include vanilla : ) and no cinchona (which brings quinine)

Dollin: Savoie-based vermouth company using a recipe based on Alpine herbs and flowers. Lemon-white colour. Smells like crème anglaise with bay leaf. Very sweet. Richness and sweet vanilla, spice and texture corseted in a minty herbaceousness. Marzipan and white chocolate and peach jam, with a glycerol-like texture. Works better with soda water than the Noilly. But somehow makes a bit of a fat martini cocktail – the gin seems to accentuate the vanilla. Works much better with dry sparkling wine and a slice of orange. Went very nicely with a slice of stollen.

Cocchi Americano: Composed using the original 1891 recipe: white Asti wine, cane sugar, and alcohol infused with gentian, artemisia, cinchona, bitter-orange peel, elderflower and other herbs and spices. Jewelled citrine colour. A savoury, woodsy nose, with medicinal Varuna bark and pomelo peel. Sugary sweet lemon meringue followed by very bitter citrus and then delicate flowers. Full body, disjointed components. Definitely needs to be mixed.

[Jay_Miller]

You should consider a Berserkerday offer for next year. I know I’d probably give it a try.

Now I’m wondering how it would do in an Americano…

[Ian_S]

I’m not up to snuff on American geography. Isn’t Vermouth in New England?

[Andrew_Kotowski]

You should consider a Berserkerday offer for next year. I know I’d probably give it a try.

Now I’m wondering how it would do in an Americano…

+1

And yeah, I drink Negronis quite a bit, as well… although much less than when I was based in a Europe. Every airport lounge was guaranteed to have gin, vermouth and Campari. Of course I made my own cocktails at the counter

[Pat_P]

But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.

Nonsense, that’s just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

I had the chance to try David’s vermouth last night. Wow!

What an eye opener. So different than “my father’s vermouth.” I am a big fan of a classic gin martini, where the glass gets to see the Vermouth bottle, but that is about it. As a result, Vermouth last a LONG time in my house, and I usually end you throwing out 2/3 full bottles. This is a totally different beast, and really enjoyable. Perhaps the closest thing I have is Cocchi Americano, which I also really like, but it is not a direct comparable.

David’s is absolutely something I would drink straight.

Still, David, I am curious to know: would you use it for mixing? What would you mix with it? It seems more suitable to a Manhattan than a Martini, but wondering if you have any other ideas? (Sounds like Negroni is the way to go, based on the above comments!)

A classic martini has vermouth likely in a 1 to 3 ratio with gin. You may prefer a hint of vermouth, but that isn’t classic.

You are aware of dry vermouth I hope.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.

Nonsense, that’s just Gin with a drop of Vermouth, to me a Martini has to have at least 1 part Vermouth to 2 parts Gin. I WANT to taste the Vermouth. IMHO

Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. Wtf.

[Pat_P]

Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. Wtf.

I guess you could drink it but, it’s not a Martini.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. Wtf.

I guess you could drink it but, it’s not a Martini.

“ But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.”
Are you making a red vermouth, dry white, sweet white or 2-3 vermouths.

Was the Dolin reviewed the blanco or the dry?

[Mark_Mo_rr_i_ss_ette]

You are aware of dry vermouth I hope.

More like, I was only aware of dry vermouth. I am well aware of what the recipe books say the ratio of vermouth to gin is in a martini. But, I also don’t know anyone who would ever follow that.

Not to digress into what a “Classic” martini is; the point is David’s vermouth is really interesting, and very good. And, not at all like the vermouth I find on the shelves of the local liquor store, and that is a good thing.

[Alex_N]

Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. Wtf.

I guess you could drink it but, it’s not a Martini.

Sure it is, regardless of what one bartending book or school says vs the next. Some of the old martini recipes call for dry vermouth with the addition of bitters and sugar (and other things), essentially turning the mixers into sweet vermouth.

[David_Patte]

Some seem to be trying to make martinis with red, sweet vermouth. Wtf.

I guess you could drink it but, it’s not a Martini.

“ But yeah, the idea of a very simple vermouth “in the proximity of the gin” for a martini — or maybe a drop or two, such as rinsing the glass and discarding the rest — calls for a stripped down, simple vermouth with low aromatics. That will not be the Sun Break Vermouth for sure. I’m totally in this camp: I want the gin to shine in my martini.”
Are you making a red vermouth, dry white, sweet white or 2-3 vermouths.

Was the Dolin reviewed the blanco or the dry?

It’s listed as the “Dolin, Dry Vermouth de Chambéry, NV, France”