Vermouth!! Finally launched

[Kris_Patten]

Kris,

Are you familiar with St Agrestis out of Brooklyn? They have really taken off. They started with an amaro, moved into RTD cocktails, and now have an apertivo and RTD spritz.

That is definitely the way to go!

I’m not, but the Scrappy’s team build a spritz out here with Fasel Shenstone and Mancino. Good to see people trying.

[David_Patte]

A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean ‘sweet’ vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, ‘red’ vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David’s product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.

Hear, hear! I can’t quite say it as well as the Jancis R newsletter so here ‘tis: “ In her evocative, fascinating and instructive article, How to taste vermouth, Arnica Rowan discussed how we need to take a different, broader approach when tasting vermouth. Exploring the wine for flavours takes the drinker down entirely new pathways – into the forest, across scrubland, to the seashore and into the secret room of the apothecary. This is wine, but wine with a mystical, medicinal mien. With vermouth, everything is more intense: colour, flavour, texture, sweetness, bitterness, aroma. Vermouth has an inbuilt acuteness, vehemence. It can be challenging for the novice, but thrilling for the adventurous.

It comes in a flamboyant spectrum of styles, from eye-wateringly dry, bitter and white to tooth-rottingly sweet, concentrated and dark, with almost every colour, combination and riff one can possibly imagine in the in-between. Whether you’re a strictly-wine-only drinker or a cocktail lover, there really is something for every taste in this curious-concoction universe.”

[David_Patte]

A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean ‘sweet’ vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, ‘red’ vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David’s product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.

When I’m “not drinking” I’ll have vermouth and soda in a tall glass. In reading thru some of this it doesn’t necessarily seem like David is producing Vermouth, more of an aromatized wine akin to Lillet.

This category needs to figure out how to get 2 or 3 oz. in a glass, not 0.5 oz.

I’d be looking to partner with a craft soda producer.

Yes, it can be flexible this way. Neat (only 18%ABV…) on ice, or as you suggest with soda or in cocktails. Ours will definitely be in the vermouth wheelhouse with bitter and herbal botanicals along with the fruit and floral. And one key secret is starting with good acidity in the base wine. Don’t get me wrong, I like white Lillet for what it is, but we’re not very close to this profile with the addition of bitters and herbal component layered on the floral and fruit

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.

That said, there are quite a few locally produced Vermouths, and the recipe for success mostly seems to be the same as for small wineries. Stay enthused in your work, and plan on/hope for a Sonny Rollins lifestyle.

Those Vinum days…hard to break away. I’m lucky to have sold Carpano for quite a while and their new Clasico, Bianco, and Extra Dry line are really best value/quality IMO. Dolin is a bit too cloying personally.

As to the topic, if you’re looking for inexpensive Vermouth, Cinzano always came out best in taste tests. If you’re willing to branch out Routin, Lacuesta, Mancino, and Yzaguirre offer interesting alternatives.

Its becoming more popular as a stand alone along with a cocktail enhancer…I quite enjoy Vermouth and soda.

Dolin was definitely an addition from my days at Vinum. I still prefer it, but don’t use the Blanc much. That is a bit sweet for me. The Rouge is light on it’s feet(and relatively easy to find in rural Oregon) and it works well.

[Kris_Patten]

Our house is pretty much Dolin all the time. Especially with Negronis being the most prevalent cocktail we drink.

That said, there are quite a few locally produced Vermouths, and the recipe for success mostly seems to be the same as for small wineries. Stay enthused in your work, and plan on/hope for a Sonny Rollins lifestyle.

Those Vinum days…hard to break away. I’m lucky to have sold Carpano for quite a while and their new Clasico, Bianco, and Extra Dry line are really best value/quality IMO. Dolin is a bit too cloying personally.

As to the topic, if you’re looking for inexpensive Vermouth, Cinzano always came out best in taste tests. If you’re willing to branch out Routin, Lacuesta, Mancino, and Yzaguirre offer interesting alternatives.

Its becoming more popular as a stand alone along with a cocktail enhancer…I quite enjoy Vermouth and soda.

Dolin was definitely an addition from my days at Vinum. I still prefer it, but don’t use the Blanc much. That is a bit sweet for me. The Rouge is light on it’s feet(and relatively easy to find in rural Oregon) and it works well.

Haus Alpenz had some very cool product, many way ahead of their time, like Genepy, and were forward thinking with aromatized wine.

[Jeff_M1]

Had some Vermouth at Trinchero 2 years back and it was really good.

[Kris_Patten]

Had some Vermouth at Trinchero 2 years back and it was really good.

They actually sell it now, Trincheri Vermouth.

[Russell_Faulkner]

Currently have Dolin and Punt E Mes open. Prefer the latter for sipping and in a Negroni.

[Phil_T_r_o_t_t_e_r]

I replaced my Old Fashioned with a Negroni about 2 years ago as my daily cocktail. Currently, I use Guerra Blanco Reserva for my pink Negroni and Padro & Co for my regular one.

As a sipper, I prefer Adi Badenhorst’s Caperitif. Also big shout out to a local product called: L’Amer from Clos Saragnat which is a deeply bitter apéritif cider.

[Kelly_Walker]

Anyone know of or tried D’Pampe Pamplemousse Vermouth? I was gifted a bottle by a distributor friend. Made in Napa. A rosato I assume made from grapefruit along with other spices. Have yet to open. 17%.

[Ian_H]

Two pretty different audiences. I can tell you that I drink Manhattans most nights and I look to Cocktail books and Instagram for my inspiration. Generally centered on Carpano Antica and a Dolin/Punt e Mes mix (suggested by Death & Co), although I’ve picked up Drapo (Italy) and Vermouth del Professor based on recommendations from stores with liquor sections I trust.

I think it will be much easier (and cheaper) for you to target your audience using Facebook/IG demographic filters for social media campaigns. Find a couple of influencers on the cocktail side and/or do a give away. Would love to help, but at ~420 followers (primarily for steak/pork chops), I’m not your guy

When I make a Manhattan those are my go-to’s as well. Really like Carpano and also really like Punt e Mes. They’re quite different, so not sure what that says about my preferences apart from appreciating quality and variety.

[David_Patte]

Anyone know of or tried D’Pampe Pamplemousse Vermouth? I was gifted a bottle by a distributor friend. Made in Napa. A rosato I assume made from grapefruit along with other spices. Have yet to open. 17%.

Sorry, no. I checked the JancisR newsletter review and they didn’t taste this one…

[Oliver_McCrum]

We have started importing several Italian craft vermouths, and I’m drinking them with great pleasure, particularly before dinner with soda or tonic. I never would have thought it 20 years ago.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

A couple of points:

Red vermouth does not necessarily mean ‘sweet’ vermouth. There are red vermouths that are drier and I tend to prefer them. Carpano Antica is much too sweet for me. Also, ‘red’ vermouth is not necessarily made from red wine-Lustau is sherry based and Montanaro uses a Marsala base.

Secondly, as Kris mentioned I think with more boutique gins like David’s product a selling point should not be how it works in classic cocktails-people should be encouraged to drink them stand alone or in a more refreshing style of cocktail where the vermouth is the focus as opposed to being an adjunct. Americans tend not to drink vermouth this way enough.

When I’m “not drinking” I’ll have vermouth and soda in a tall glass. In reading thru some of this it doesn’t necessarily seem like David is producing Vermouth, more of an aromatized wine akin to Lillet.

This category needs to figure out how to get 2 or 3 oz. in a glass, not 0.5 oz.

I’d be looking to partner with a craft soda producer.

I’ve never seen the Lillet Dry which likely is an aromatized wine, the Lillet Blanc in the USA seems like a crappy version of pineau d anuis.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

We have started importing several Italian craft vermouths, and I’m drinking them with great pleasure, particularly before dinner with soda or tonic. I never would have thought it 20 years ago.

I’ll have to try vermouth with soda. Seems like you’d have to add less soda than an americano. Tonic as a mixer doesn’t interest me, too associated with G&T.

[Mark_Mo_rr_i_ss_ette]

I tried David’s vermouth with soda water last night. First time I have ever tried vermouth and soda. Really nice, refreshing drink, with the added bonus of a lot of complexity. I will definitely be exploring this more.

[Oliver_McCrum]

We have started importing several Italian craft vermouths, and I’m drinking them with great pleasure, particularly before dinner with soda or tonic. I never would have thought it 20 years ago.

I’ll have to try vermouth with soda. Seems like you’d have to add less soda than an americano. Tonic as a mixer doesn’t interest me, too associated with G&T.

Right, I prefer soda. And a squeeze of lemon. I love Negronis but that’s a lot of alcohol to start off the evening.

[Russell_Faulkner]

The Oiseau Rebelle BRMTH (in the small bottle) is very odd. Its orange, cloudy, full of pithy skin contact extract and dry (3g/l). It’s not technically a vermouth as it’s not fortified or infused, but it reminded the producer of one. 17% alcohol from spontaneous fermentation of Grenache Noir. Pricey at e33 per 50cl but worth investigating.

(disclosure - I might sell this at some point)

[Joseph_Grassa]

I am preparing to launch a vermouth this year and we’ve been experimenting with different recipes. Fruit, floral, herbal and bitter botanicals + grape (Pinot Noir) brandy + rose’ wine (18% ABV). We want our vermouth to be delicious on its own as well being a great cocktail ingredient.

Curious to know your thoughts on how to market this (since most folks will not exactly know what a small batch, highly aromatic vermouth is)? Also, if anyone has access to Jancis Robinson’s newsletter, I sure would love seeing the tasting notes posted in today’s edition (if it is even possible to save as pdf or some such).

Thanks! David
Sun Break Wine and Cider (and Vermouth!)

Has this hit the market? I am in the market for some vermouth and would love to go with a berserker.

[John_Kight]

Negronis are my favorite cocktail now and are really the only cocktails I’ll drink (I do like scotch and Japanese whisky neat though). I’ve settled on Dolin as my preferred Vermouth as of now as well but I’d love to see other recs here.

Even worse thread drift now, but: I also love Negronis (and Negroni variations). But I also love the Boulevardier (itself a Negroni variation of sorts).

I most often drink Negroni in Spring/Summer and Boulevardier in Fall/Winter. In both drinks, I prefer 1.5 (or 1.75) parts Gin/Bourbon to 1 part Campari & 1 part Vermouth rather than the 1:1:1 “official” recipe.

Ultimately, Campari is just a badass liquor, especially for being such a mass-produced, commercial, ubiquitous drink. The color is amazing and the uniquely odd “base” flavor (ignoring some of the exotic components and the bitter/sweet aspect) is something between tahini/sesame seeds and peanut butter.