Top Grand Cru Vineyards in Burgundy?

WINE TALK
1

So, I’m sitting here in Rully. Had a great week so far, running around the region, eating/drinking/biking. Friends along for the trip asked what were considered to be the greatest grand cru vineyards here. Here was my list;
Red - La Tache, Romanee Conti, La Romanee, Richebourg, Chambertin, Chambertin Beze, Musigny, Clos de la Roche.
White - Montrachet, Chevalier Montrachet, Batard Montrachet.

So, I leave anything out? Thoughts on RSV? CSD? CC? BM? Should I leave out CDLR? Richebourg?

2

Bienvenue-Batard from certain producers is making a claim these days to displace Batard from your list.

3

I think Clos St Denis should be there, and more controversially Clos De Vougeot.

4

I would replace CDLR with Amoureuses. Other than that I pretty much agree exactly with your list although I never had a RC, Romanee or Montrachet. I hear they’re “some good” though… Stuff like CC and CdV doesn’t belong in top of the list because unlike the others listed, they are not “nearly always spectacular from any producer”.

5

I seldom rate wines by points; but for ACs I do.

Here is my list : RC 99 points; LT 98; La Romanee and Musigny 96.5; Richebourg, Chambertin, Chambertin-CdBeze, and R.St.V 96.

6

Personally: for me

  1. Romanée-Conti
    is head above shoulders on top.

Then I would rate
2. La Tâche, La Romanée and Musigny.

I now hesitate to include Chambertin and Ch.Clos des Beze, although the Rousseau-bottlings and Leroy certainly deserve it, but many others definitely not - and that´s the majority.

For me is
3. Richebourg and Romanée-St-Vivant certainly on par, on the same level, if very different. What Rb has in opulence and fullness - RSV has it in fragrance, complexity and satiny texture.
Here also belongs
Chambertin and Clos de Beze in general, although there are examples for 6. or even below (Rebourseau)

  1. No doubt
    Clos-de-la-Roche, Clos St. Denis, also Clos de Tart
    (although it´s hard to taste a really mature example),
    Bonnes-Mares,
    the best Clos Vougeot, some Charmes- and Griottes-Chambertin
    can produce wines worth of class 3, but rarely and not consitently … so I´d put it into class 4, together with
    Grands-Echezeaux and the best Echezeaux.

  2. Clos des Lambrays can be sometimes very fine, but not consistently enough for class 4, the same for
    La Grande Rue and Ruchottes-Chambertin.
    Also the best Mazis-, Latricieres- and Mazoyeres-Chambertin

  3. here comes Chapelle-Chambertin, the majority of Corton (although some can be certainly be better) - and the lesser of all GCs mentioned already above, e.g. several Clos Vougeot and Echezeaux.

Should be 25 GCs.

The question wasn´t for 1er Crus, but I´d include

  1. VR Cros Parantoux -
  2. the best ChM Amoureuses, ChM Combe d´Orveau, GCh Clos St.Jacques and VR Reignots/Malconsorts/Gaudichots generally,
    Les St.Georges into 6. - sometimes 5.

ALL very generally spoken!

7

OK…after reading Gerhard’s post. I changed my mind…I mean…the points. Here is the reviced list :

RC - 99; LT - 98; La Romanee and Musigny - 97; and Riche, Chambertin,Chambertin-CdBeze and RStV…all 96.

8

Fine!
Please name a few Chambertins (and Bezes) except Rousseau and Leroy that deserve 97 points and can compete with most Richebourgs.

Seriously - no joke … (and certainly no insult intended) - I´m really curious!

9

Gerhard…you never insult anyone.

Here is my 2 cents. Rating of wine-vineyards, in the purest and fairest sence, shouldn’t we exclude the factor of producers ?

If we include the factor of producers, we will be arguing all the time as your best (producer) may not be my best (producer).

Most of wine-drinkers…I would say…are bias [wink.gif]

10

Dugat-Py Chambertin

11

I am bias.

I do not like Dugat-Py wines (as they are not my-style of Burgundy ), including his Chambertin. Nothing wrong his Dugat-Py and nothing wrong with me either.

I tried it a few times ( and my friend paid for them )… [bye.gif]

12

I would add Bonnes Mares and Clos St. Denis. Each are at least as good as Clos de la Roche, which I love.

13

I agree that Chambertin and Clos des Beze are below Richebourg as vinyards.

One of my favorite Chamberins is Rossignol-Trapet. Better than a Gros Freres Richebourg I had (good and not as good from both vineyards).

14

YES, I can definitely imagine that it´s high quality - I´ve never tasted the Chambertin - only the Charmes and 1er Crus like Petite Chapelle … concentrated stuff, very toasty - and in need of long term cellaring (and not my fav. style of Burgundy), but certainly high quality.

Agreed.

Well, I had a very nice Bart Clos de Beze recently, not really great to get crazy, but … well, really nice!

Didn´I rate all 3 in the same group? With good reason.

But however, all three lack a bit that kind of extra dimension, of multi-dimensional complexity and subtlety a Musigny, RSV or Richebourg shows.
I think the finest of the three is Clos.St.Denis, the strongest Bonnes-Mares - and CdlRoche has a bit of both, but can sometimes be a bit rustic, too.

15

though I love CdlR, wouldn’t put it in the top list and would include only recent La Romanée. RSV can take CdlR’s place.
alan

16

Interesting that there’s no love for Clos de Tart.

17

Gerhard said :
For me is
3. Richebourg and Romanée-St-Vivant certainly on par, on the same level, if very different. What Rb has in opulence and fullness - RSV has it in fragrance, complexity and satiny texture.
Here also belongs
Chambertin and Clos de Beze in general, although there are examples for 6. or even below (Rebourseau)

Gerhard…you placed Riche, RStV, Chambertin and CdBeze in the same level - No. 3.

Yet in your post No.8, you are asking me for examples Chambertin and CdBeze in comparision with Riche ? [scratch.gif].

BTW…I rated Riche, Chambertin, CdBese and RSTV only 96 point …( not 97 points ).




Gerhard said :

Fine!
Please name a few Chambertins (and Bezes) except Rousseau and Leroy that deserve 97 points and can compete with most Richebourgs.
Seriously - no joke … (and certainly no insult intended) - I´m really curious!

18

Some would say, compared to Lambrays it would look like a Tart. [cheers.gif]

19

The Grand Cru vineyards to a large extent owe their reputation to the producers, especially the likes of DRC, Leroy, and Rousseau.

20

Damoy 93 Beze, Dujac Chambertin, maybe Dugat-Py, though I haven’t had the latter two.
alan