TNs: Some old Chidaine, some new Champagne and some old Copain syrahs

I was the host for this month, allowing me to build some flights I had wanted to put in front of the group for some time. We had the good fortune also this month of having @ToddFrench and @AstridKG join us in the guest chairs.

In short, my vision was to side-by-side the Chidaine chenin, which ultimately I edited when I opened the Choisilles in the morning and just felt it wasn’t at my serving standard. In place of that I slotted in the Marie Courtin still Pinot Noir, which looks like a white, and it performed very well as the replacement.

The two Champagnes were out of the norm given their compositions, which I thought would be a good brain teaser for the group. Ultimately, Astrid guessed them both, which again validates her smarts and senses as having a high-tuned palate, one of the best around here.

Finally, closed with the Copain syrahs. I have a handful of mixed sites and years left, so I landed on the mix we did last night. Man, that Hawks Butte is aging like a winner. And, as a side note, the Rousanne showed like a real winner, too. One thing about Wells Guthrie, he knew how to make great stuff, and he (in my view after 2006) stopped caring about Parker, the scores and he went the way of his vision and this unchained him to make these kinds of wines.

I have some of the leftover bottles to retry tonight, and if my perceptions change, I will amend my notes.

Thanks to the group for last night, and thanks for reading.

BOOKCLUB (SERVED BLIND)--MY TURN - Foretti's in Corona Del Mar (4/11/2024)

All wines were selected from my cellar and served blind, except for the Choisilles. Wines were opened at 1130am, then served starting at 530pm. The Hawks Butte and Rousanne both had dried corks that blew up when I tried to pull them. So, those wines were strained through a metal kitchen screen to remove the cork pieces, infusing both of these wines with 2 decants each before being returned to their clean bottles.

Chidaine Choisilles--Is It Over The Hill?

  • 2010 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Les Choisilles - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire
    I opened one of these 7 years ago and my comment then was 'no signs of fading'. However, the bottle I opened last night for the group was in my view past its peak. The color has become golden. There is still some wool and light petrol in the aroma and some honeyed peach, yet the acidity and freshness has left the wine, leaving instead a sour apple and bitter grapefruit signature. I elected to not blind the group on this wine, removing it from the lineup and we simply tasted it as the starter to the evening. One smart palate tried it and then it went right to the dump bucket. In sum, I am glad this is the last bottle I own, but I will keep the great memories of when this Choisilles was in its prime.

Some Mixed Whites To Test The 'Ol Brain

  • 2010 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Les Tuffeaux - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire
    Over 8 years since I opened one of these. At that time, the wine was much fresher, and I expect over time the aging process to ensue. It has aged here, although much less so than the 2010 Choisilles I was trying to pair with the Tuffeaux. We ended up neither drinking much of the Choisilles and a few guys just dumped it on first taste. On the other hand, this Tuffeaux is in better shape. It has the same gold color of Choisilles, yet the fruit is better defined, with golden apple and apricot/stone fruit. There is some caramel riding into the wine now, too. This is still hanging in there but I would not keep aging these, and instead get going with what you have remaining now.
  • 2018 Marie Courtin Coteaux Champenois Le Blanc du Tremble - France, Champagne, Coteaux Champenois
    100% still Pinot Noir that shows clear in the glass. Made in amphorae without S02. I served this blind last night, wedged in between an older Chidaine Tuffeaux, and an older Copain Rousanne. The impact of being in between these two wines made it even better. A few guesses that the wine was Chablis, which makes sense given the soil where Tremble is anchored. There were also references to sea air and oysters. How cool is that! For me, tart pineapple with a crisp apple-like fruit and salinity. Finish has a delicious yet cleansing quality. Towards the end of the meal, Chris S pointed out the red apple note that had come through the wine, which is consistent with my previous bottle. Think about red apple skin, it's that kind of flavor. Overall, this really seemed to resonate at the table, and it's in a good place to drink, with plenty of refreshing structure to go with the fruit. Gonna look for the 2019.
  • 2006 Copain Roussanne James Berry Vineyard - USA, California, Central Coast, Paso Robles
    This stuff is aging so well, and when I revealed the wine to the table from under the bag, I think everyone was surprised on how well this is doing at almost 2 decades old. Lightly oily texture with some petrol in the aroma. Plenty of acid yet what is most notable is the balance, freshness and the clear color that this is maintaining. It has a light savory note but beyond that, I just don't find much to say 'this wine is becoming old'. I last had this at the winery with Wells in 2017 just before he left Copain for good, and back then I liked the wine but to think it's been 7 years since that time, the wine seems to have budged very little. Bravo!

A Few Unordinary Champagnes (ironically too, that are not Brut Zero!)

  • NV Pierre Gerbais Champagne (perpetual 2011 - 2018) La Loge - France, Champagne
    Disgorged October 2022, 100% old vine Pinot Blanc (80 years old), with 3 gms of dosage. This wine seemed well-received at the table, and I concur. This bottle was as good as the one I had a few weeks ago. Mint, green apple, mineral and melon, plus a touch of pungent spice too, enough to just shade the wine. The density is just right and the wine is in good balance, with a flavor profile that is delicious.
  • NV Laherte Frères Champagne Les 7 Extra Brut (perpetual 2005-2020) - France, Champagne
    Disgorged October 2022. 4 grams of dosage. This is the 2020 base, with the perpetual inclusion back to 2005 (the plot was planted in 2003, and is still horse farmed as the total surface of this plot is pretty small). It's a blend of all 7 approved cepages, with varying ratios of just 8% for the Arbanne, up through 18% each for the Chardonnay and Meunier. Aroma here is distinctive, kinda leesy to me although Astrid used plantain when we were discussing the wine. Tension with good savory citrus. Saved a glass of the wine under stopper, will retry again this evening (from last night's remainder).

Some Older Copain Syrah--Visiting Some Old Friends

  • 2010 Copain Syrah Brosseau Vineyard - USA, California, Central Coast, Chalone
    From my older Copain fight last night which I did blind for the group: 2010 Brosseau, 2007 Hawks Butte and 2011 Halcon. All of these wines were 'only one left' bottles, which have been in my cellar for quite some time as I wanted to find the right time to do them all blind. Picked last night to put them in front of the group. I've opened a lot of bottles of this wine since release, and despite well over a decade now in bottle, it still has the Brosseau fruit signature that has always had a soft spot in my heart. Purple fruited nose with metal shaving and maybe a touch of soap. The tell-tale blue/purple fruit, that is now becoming a little tangy with some charcoal. Over time it has lost that deep cut of crushed rocks and is now well into its maturing phase. I'd say this is in a good place to drink, and given its more fruit-forward signature, I would recommend enjoying this now to capture that essence. My final bottle, goodbye old friend!
  • 2011 Copain Syrah Halcon Vineyard - USA, California, North Coast, Yorkville Highlands
    From my older Copain fight last night which I did blind for the group: 2010 Brosseau, 2007 Hawks Butte and 2011 Halcon. All of these wines were 'only one left' bottles, which have been in my cellar for quite some time as I wanted to find the right time to do them all blind. Picked last night to put them in front of the group. The Halcon was the least compelling for me. It showed some light black pepper on the aromatic, but it's now subtle. Tangy, tar and medium weight and it's just a little rough around the edges. It's also the least balanced of the trio, and I think as good as it's gonna be.
  • 2007 Copain Syrah Hawks Butte Vineyard - USA, California, North Coast, Yorkville Highlands
    From my older Copain fight last night which I did blind for the group: 2010 Brosseau, 2007 Hawks Butte and 2011 Halcon. All of these wines were 'only one left' bottles, which have been in my cellar for quite some time as I wanted to find the right time to do them all blind. Picked last night to put them in front of the group. I have drank just under 2 cases of this wine over the years, as it's consistently brought me great joy and contemplation. Last night's bottle, while it's my final one, remains delicious and is a credit to what Wells did with syrah once he decided to make the shift way back in 2007. This wine reflects that shift of lowering his alcohols, dropping the new oak way down, etc. Nose has a bloody/marrow quality. The fruit is dark-tined, with olive, game and light leather. And even with all of the age this has seen, the concentration remains, the wine seems youthful to me and is aging so well. If I had more of this (or can find more when it pops up), I will buy it. What a winner this was and continues to be!

Posted from CellarTracker

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My experience with Chidaine mirrors yours. The hold pretty well until they don’t. Maybe 10 years max. Very different than a classic like Huet or Foreau. I think the last I tried with anything close to age were '05 and '08. Neither really developed nice aged characteristics. They just lost their youthful prettiness. But, that doesn’t take away from what they are. They’re just so enjoyable in their youth and never so steely that they feel as if they need age.

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Me too. The 2010 Choisilles was pleasantly drinkable but turning the corner. The 2010 Tuffeaux was in good shape, but it didn’t appear to have gained any complexity or greater interest from age, and it was overall a tasty but pretty basic glass of wine. I would guess it was slightly better 5+ years ago.

I’ve had far better aging experience with Huet. I’ve had a couple of premox bottles, but mostly they age well and gain complexity and wine experience as the sweetness fades back a bit, with plenty of acid to maintain the structure.

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I still have the lone bottle now of 2007 Les Bouchet. There are still 60 users of the wine within CT, and just a couple notes on the wine that are most recent from 2022. It’s probably time to say goodbye to that bottle, and see what’s there. And, perhaps viewing this thread can be one of those 60 who might take a leap and open one and share that with us. I would value that very much.

Those Copain roussannes are pretty magical. Have not had any that Anthony Young makes from there with his Kinero brand but I thought Wells killed them, especially with some bottle time.

Acidity in roussanne is quite tricky - this is a variety that I never pour chilled and therefore do not try to accentuate at all since it’s the texture that makes this variety so alluring to me.

Bob Lindquist poured a 2021 Roussanne from Bien Nacido at the Rhone Rangers tasting earlier this week in Santa Barbara and he mentioned how much acid was in the wine - but to me, it was not apparent at all due to the texture. Intriguing . . .

Still have a few of Copain’s 2006s and 2009s floating around I believe - will have to dig one out soon.

Cheers

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Several people, myself includes, have had that 2007 Hawks Butte in the last month or two, all with similar experiences.

I got a 2005 of that Roussanne recently and am very much looking forward to opening it soon.

To say ‘this really seemed to resonate at the table’ is a classic Frank Murray understatement - it blew our faces off and our brains through the top of our heads, and we couldn’t stop talking about it even through and after the rest of the flights. Just extraordinary how the characters one expects from Pinot Noir were almost entirely lacking (other than mouthfeel, that should have been the ‘tell’, but the rest of the components of the wine were SO far off it would be a significant jump for anyone to peg) and how it was universally adopted as Chardonnay, with utmost confidence, by the entire table (save the host, of course). Still one of the most spectacular surprises of my wine experiences ever. An incredible treat.

Frank killed it with the Syrah flight, as well - the variance of the three was pretty bold, and his experience with the wines (in the past, when he used to drink red wines on the reg) was evident when he was the only person to correctly name the vintages, as he stated he didn’t remember how he bagged them, and it’s Frank, so we believe it.

Fantastic job, happy to humbly be part of it

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I have never found Chidaine’s wine to age well but think that’s the nature of Montlouis versus Vouvray. Though I have never tasted his Vouvrays with any significant age, I would be shocked if Les Bouchet, with its high residual sugar content and vineyard location adjacent to the Clos du Bourg, is in decline.

Frenchie, thank you for posting some thoughts. Love doing these dinners.

The 2019 MC Tremble is listed at Vinopolis for $89. No tax and flat shipping of $30. If you or any of the other guys want to do an order together, I am in.

I’m not supposed to be buying wine but this is too unique an opportunity to pass up - I want to be sure I have the opportunity at some point to trick others and serve this wonderful Coteaux Champenois blind, so I’m in for two if a ‘local’ order materializes

That’s the spirit, Frenchie!

heck yeah, congratulations to me for wanting to stump other wine lovers like we were stumped! Revenge, thy name is The Toddfather!

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I was saying at the dinner, it’s like those guys you know who play Liar’s Poker and have that one dollar bill they keep in their wallet where there’s like 8 of one number (or whatever it is that makes the best hand in that game) that they know will always win.

The 2007 was released relatively late, in 2014 I believe, due to being so backwards in its youth. I reckon that could indicate a longer life than most of the range.

Thanks for the note. I found my lone bottle of 2010 Tuffeaux the other night in the cellar. Looks like I better drink up.

The Courtin Coteaux Champenois is the bomb. The aged syrah from Copain is a great treat and the end of an era.

BOOK CLUB - Foretti's (4/15/2024)

Frank's turn to supply the wines and as usual he did not disappoint.

Whites

Wasn’t sure about the theme on this one. Wines I like? LOL

  • 2010 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Les Choisilles - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire
    This was the same bottle as Frank Murray‘s. It was over the hill. Dark brassy color. The nose was funky pear. It did have a nice stone fruit and honey. Medium oxidation. But that was it dropped off after that without any structure.
  • 2010 François Chidaine Montlouis-sur-Loire Les Tuffeaux - France, Loire Valley, Touraine, Montlouis-sur-Loire
    Blind: definitely thought this was a Chennin.

    This wine has the color of an aged Chennin, brassy gold. The palate is yellow pear and dried herbs. Touch of residual sugar mid palate. The body is medium weight and it’s slick on the tongue. I wrote down “Demi-sec”
  • 2018 Marie Courtin Coteaux Champenois Le Blanc du Tremble - France, Champagne, Coteaux Champenois
    Blind: guessed Chardonnay. Thought it was a Chablis.

    Wine of the night for me. So intriguing, so engaging, so much so that I missed by a mile.

    The color is extremely light, but looks like a New World Sauvignon Blanc but it’s slightly cloudy. The nose is where this wine stands up and says “pay attention.” Immediately the salty sea spray is omnipresent, I immediately thought, crushed clam shells until Todd fired out “tray of fresh oysters”. They all work, it’s amazing. Mid palate it’s fairly light which had me questioning Chablis but I couldn’t think of anywhere else to go. The fruit is lemon and very clean.

    The fact that this is Pinot Noir from Champagne made it all the more awesome. One of the best wines to include in a blind tasting.
  • 2006 Copain Roussanne James Berry Vineyard - USA, California, Central Coast, Paso Robles
    Blind: I was waffling around on this one, between a Riesling and a white Bordeaux. Ultimately landed on Roussanne after a few hints but that doesn’t count.

    Well, there’s a lot going on here. The gold color hints that there might be some age. The nose had a little bit of cat piss so I was charging down the Sauvignon Blanc road. But there was a very present oily petroleum note which flipped everything upside down. This saw no new oak but there’s clearly something like that happening at the finish, plus dried moss. Excellent wine.

Sparklers

  • NV Pierre Gerbais Champagne (perpetual 2011 - 2018) La Loge - France, Champagne
    Blind: Heck, I don’t know. Could be 100% Chardonnay, or a blend of some unusual stuff. I thought maybe Chardonnay and Petit Meunière

    Remember that terrible chewing gum when you were a kid, fruit stripe? How the zebras a mascot. The nose definitely reminded me of that, and as soon as I mentioned it, the conversation at the table quickly devolved into bad gum when you were a kid. Blackjack, baseball card, etc.

    The nose also showed some anise. Bubbles are very fine and a light lemon zest flavor. The finish was very long. I put a star next to the note.
  • NV Laherte Frères Champagne Les 7 Extra Brut (perpetual 2005-2020) - France, Champagne
    Blind: thought this was Petit Meunière.

    The aromas from this glass scream classic champagne sparkler. Beautiful, tart, lime, green and red apple. It’s a bit foamy in the mouth, especially at the finish. I like this wine, and I have a great appreciation for what it represents, the all inclusive sparkler.

Reds with age

Thought the theme of this flight might be old Carlisle’s with Syrah.

  • 2010 Copain Syrah Brosseau Vineyard - USA, California, Central Coast, Chalone
    Blind: definitely believe Syrah was in here but guessed a GSM. Maybe Carlisle Two acres or Three Birds?

    This really came across as a classic GSM. There’s a beautiful olive note. Black fruit and it’s very dark and hard to believe that it’s 14 years old. Prickly tannins tell me that this will last much longer.
  • 2011 Copain Syrah Halcon Vineyard - USA, California, North Coast, Yorkville Highlands
    Blind: I was down Zinfandel path, but this one but the problem was the oak.

    I think it had more to do with the 2011 vintage because I’m sure there was a lot of engineering that went on in the background to make this work. it’s very nice but it comes across as a light style and a little red fruit. There’s a spicy note and what is showing as oak but probably stem? That was a conundrum in trying to pin this one down
  • 2007 Copain Syrah Hawks Butte Vineyard - USA, California, North Coast, Yorkville Highlands
    Blind: definitely straw, then sticking with the Carlisle theme. wrong on the producer.

    Classic syrah markers but not hint at the age. Black olive, iodine, herb, and violet. Please, I’d like to revisit.

Posted from CellarTracker

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Thanks for putting these up. I still have a handful of Copain Halcon in the cellar (08,09.12) that I would be jazzed to drink with you. I just hesitate to put them out in a free for all setting as I’ve held them for so long and want them to get some attention, good or bad, as we did last week with the trio I had for you. I’ll figure out when best to open them for you, short of waiting another year when it’s my turn at Bookclub.

I hope my CT is correct about me still having 1 bottle of that '07 Copain Hawks Butte! I remember always loving that one. I still have a smattering of '07 and '08 Copain Syrahs, mostly single bottles. It’s probably about time to pull a couple. The showing on that Roussanne is surprising; I never thought to hold any for more than a few years. Nice wines in that window, though!

Doug, from my recall, 2007 was the warm year and 2008 the fire year. Interesting on the HB 2007 is that it balances the warmth of the year well. In 2008, Wells (I don’t recall for sure but think) he did not make everything because of the smoke issues. But there is 2008 Halcon, as I own it. You may too. If you have 2008, holler back and perhaps we can open it on the same day or something, coordinate together. Might be cool to do that.

Next time I’m down your way would love to do a Halcon theme. I have all the Halcon from Copain and Paul, so can fill whatever might be interesting.