TN: Slumming with 2nd Tier Kabinetts

[David_Bu3ker]

Später-Veit is a new name to me. Thanks.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Lars Carlberg

Carl Schmitt-Wagner and Alfred Merkelbach are indeed well-liked “old-school” producers. As Steven mentioned above, I’d add Jos. Christoffel jr., too. Like the Merkelbachs, Kajo is also based in Ürzig and is nearing retirement. Hans Leo Christoffel of Joh. Jos. Christoffel Erben, who is now retired and whose estate is run by Robert Eymael of Mönchhof, is another grower worth mentioning. Yet there are many more good producers, past and present, of residually sweet German Rieslings. In Piesport, Reinhold Haart is the top producer, but Später-Veit also produces very good wines in this style, along with their dry Piesporters.

Lars, I also am not familar with Später-Veit. Aside from sweeter or not sweeter, how do their wines compare stylistically to Haart’s wines, which I love. Are their other Mosel producers that are a better comparison to Später-Veit?

Thanks.

[Lars_Carlberg]

Howard: Heinz Welter at Später-Veit makes various styles of wine from Piesport. And the Welters and the Haarts of Reinhold Haart are friends.

[P_L_owet]

I know little about German wines compared to other posters here, but I’m surprised:

1. Leitz is considered (by David and perhaps others) as top-tier. Disclaimer: I’ve only had their lower end wines, which are solid values, but never wowed.
2. No one else seems to consider F. Haag 1st or 2nd tier. I’m a fan for their quality and relative value. I didn’t know I was such an outlier!

Regards,
Peter

[David_Bu3ker]

I put Leitz in the top tier because he does a fine job from the reasonably priced wines that are very good and solid value to the more expensive, higher-end offerings that are world class. If you have not had a Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Roseneck Spatlese then you need to.

In my case, Fritz Haag is not widely available except as special order, and the wines are not competitively priced with other things that I love and can more easily obtain.

[Howard_Cooper]

@Lars Carlberg

Howard: Heinz Welter at Später-Veit makes various styles of wine from Piesport. And the Welters and the Haarts of Reinhold Haart are friends.

Thank you.

[Howard_Cooper]

@P L owet

2. No one else seems to consider F. Haag 1st or 2nd tier. I’m a fan for their quality and relative value. I didn’t know I was such an outlier!

Regards,
Peter

Peter,

Haag’s wines are very good but not among my favorites, so I did not put them as a top tier. If I want Haag wines, I buy Schloss Lieser (brother/son). The only reason I did not put them as second tier as I think they are more expensive than the wines I put as second tier.

[Harry_Gruber]

I haven’t reviewed these lists very carefully, but it seems that there doesn’t appear to be much love for Emrich-Schönleber. I wonder why? I think they make excellent wines.

[David_Bu3ker]

I for one have very little access to Schonleber wines.

[salilb]

@David M. Bueker

I for one have very little access to Schonleber wines.

ahem…

[David_Bu3ker]

We’ve had maybe 4. New releases anywhere local?

[Russell_Faulkner]

Interesting comments on pricing, in the UK everything costs the same more or less (except Muller) so price is irrelevant really.

I but Muller, Prum, Lieser, Haag and Schaefer every year, add Zilliken in most. I guess that makes everything else second or third tier…

[David_Bu3ker]

Russell - do you enjoy German Rieslings from any region other than the M-S-R?

[Russell_Faulkner]

Yes, some, but I prefer the Mosel.

[doug_johnson]

2010 A.J. Adam Hofberg Riesling Kabinett - Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer (9/22/2013)
So pure, so precise, so gossamer. Like no other riesling I’ve had besides Willi Schaefer. (92 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

[Howard_Cooper]

@Russell Faulkner

Interesting comments on pricing, in the UK everything costs the same more or less (except Muller) so price is irrelevant really.

I but Muller, Prum, Lieser, Haag and Schaefer every year, add Zilliken in most. I guess that makes everything else second or third tier…

Try Rheinhold Haart.

[David_Bu3ker]

Egon Muller kicks the pants off of young Mr. Adam. Then there’s that Prum guy.

[Russell_Faulkner]

@Howard Cooper

@Russell Faulkner

Interesting comments on pricing, in the UK everything costs the same more or less (except Muller) so price is irrelevant really.

I but Muller, Prum, Lieser, Haag and Schaefer every year, add Zilliken in most. I guess that makes everything else second or third tier…

Try Rheinhold Haart.

Have done, nice enough, but not up with the others IMHO…

Of course I missed Grunhaus, an 88 Abtsberg Kab last week was divine. The 79 was pretty good too!

[Lars_Carlberg]

@David M. Bueker

Egon Muller kicks the pants off of young Mr. Adam. Then there’s that Prum guy.

It’s a question of style and one’s personal taste. Although I would agree that the famous estates of Egon Müller and J.J. Prüm produce some of the best residually sweet Mosel Kabinett wines, A.J. Adam also makes very good Kabinetts. Andreas Adam’s Kabinetts, like his friend Johannes Haart at Reinhold Haart, tend to be a little more ripe and dense. Moreover, Andreas makes excellent dry and off-dry Mosel wines, too.

[Dav1dZ]

@Lars Carlberg

@David M. Bueker

Egon Muller kicks the pants off of young Mr. Adam. Then there’s that Prum guy.

It’s a question of style and one’s personal taste. Although I would agree that the famous estates of Egon Müller and J.J. Prüm produce some of the best residually sweet Mosel Kabinett wines, A.J. Adam also makes very good Kabinetts. Andreas Adam’s Kabinetts, like his friend Johannes Haart at Reinhold Haart, tend to be a little more ripe and dense. Moreover, Andreas makes excellent dry and off-dry Mosel wines, too.

Sigh. Comments like this are why Kabinetts have been ruined. If you want a riper, denser Kabinett, go buy a Spatlese.