TN: Slumming with 2nd Tier Kabinetts

2001 Joh. Jos. Christoffel Erben Erdener Treppchen Riesling Kabinett - Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer (9/15/2013)
This is in prime time now. Drier than it was on release, such that it drinks more like a prototypical kabinett than a steroidal version. Slate, herb, lemon cream and a finishing note of green apple make this a complete Mosel Riesling. It’s much too easy to drink, as kabinett should be, and shows no signs that it won’t hang on this plateau for years to come. (92 pts.)

2009 Kruger-Rumpf Münsterer Rheinberg Riesling Kabinett - Germany, Nahe (9/15/2013)
Ripe, crisp and fresh, this is big, but not too big for kabinett. It still shows a bit of spritz, which buttresses the acidity, and makes the wine very refreshing. It’s not incredibly complex, but it is fun. (89 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker

Thanks for the summary, David.

I blame you (primarily) for my dive into the German segment back on '98 or so; my CT still shows 11 '01 Kabinetts, mainly Selbach Sonnenuhrs but also a few J&HA Strub Pettenthals and Zilliken Saarburger Rauch. I tapered off after that but still pick up a few when I get over to my stores. Missed on anything post '08, so ought to pick up the slack.

[cheers.gif]

Drink the Strubs.

Christoffel? Second tier?

champagne.gif

I would say so, unless its a big first tier… :slight_smile:

Howard - see here:

I agree with David. Drink the Strubs.
K

They don’t make dry wines. :wink:

Technically they do (or at least did), but not much. You’ve never had the Christoffel Urziger Wurzgarten Auslese Trocken?

David - I’d be interested to see your top 10 German sweet wine producers (10 being the arbitrary number for Tier 1). I like JJ Christoffel a lot and I really like UW and EP but the top 10 sweet wine producers in Germany is a tough list to break into.

Mat,

That will take some thinking, and by necessity will reflect personal preferences and experience. I will try to answer in a reasonable time frame though.

David - I’ll be interested in seeing your list. As I said, it’s a tough list to get into - there’s a lot of competition among traditional sweet wine producers.

Agreed. I have gotten to 9 and now have to make a very tough choice.

It’s even harder when you consider that wineries like Keller and Schaefer Frohlich also make sweet wine. Heck, even Immich makes sweet wines.

True, I thought of that. I’m looking at a more broad commitment to the genre, and the breadth/depth of top quality bottlings. I am giving greater creedence to a producer that regularly makes off-dry/sweet kabinett up to eiswein/BA/TBA. A producer can make a couple of sweet wines that are very good, but if it’s not their core “mission” then they are not going to end up as high on my list.

I would suspect that dry riesling specialists might apply a similar logic (e.g. Willi Schaefer is not a top dry wine producer despite their single, very fine GG).

I’m curious why you say that – not that I disagree. I have a bunch of the 01 Paterberg. It seems sound but boring – just sweet with no acid and not a lot of complexity. Do you have concerns about their lasting longer?

I don’t see them gaining any interesting complexity, and they then act as a defender of bottlings that might profit from more aging. I don’t think they will fall off of a cliff tomorrow, but they are not a long term proposition anymore. I’ve had Oelberg, Pettenthal and Paterberg kabinetts, and they are all worth/in need of drinking now and over the reasonably short term.

Ok, realizing that this is my list, and reflects both personal preference and depth of experience with a producer, and that it is in no particular order:

J. J. Prum
Donnhoff
Egon Muller
Robert Weil
Zilliken
Rheinhold Haart
von Schubert
Josef Leitz
Selbach-Oster
Willi Schaefer

I could have opted for any number of others for the tenth spot (I won’t tell you which one I picked last), and ultimately a list of 15 might have just about hit all of my top tier possibilities.

A very good list.

The scary thing is that one could make an argument for
Markus Molitor
Karthäuserhof
Schloss Lieser
Schaefer Frohlich

(none a Lyle producer)

Obviously, stylistic preferences impact this sort of thing (Karthäuserhof is a love/hate producer).

Given that, I had 6 on your list which is a pretty high correlation.

Rather than quibble with your picks (cannot complain about any of them), I would make it a top 14 and add:

Schloss Lieser
Schaefer Frohlich
Adam
Gunderloch