TN: I Still Hate Champagne

[Keith_A_k_e_r_s]

You mean to say you get no kick from Champagne?

That mere type of alcohol doesn’t thrill you at all?

That’s OK, we get a kick out of you!

Thanks for the cool tasting notes, those two wines are new to me.

Anton I can’t tell what parts of your post are serious and what parts are in jest. This must be what it feels like to be Yaacov.

I apologize.

Your post reminded me of an old Fred Astaire (or Frank Sinatra) song, so I sort of mashed the lyrics to match your thread title.

I meant it all in complimentary fashion, I appreciated you teaching me about wines I have never encountered before.

You shouldn’t apologize. Whilst the OP is allowed his opinion on champagne, methinks they were ready to be flamed and couldn’t appreciate the smile inducing humor in your post


Now, if you were to start singing the camp town races, we’d go fully into the hilariously absurd

[William_Kelley]

From what I understand, Bouchard considers himself to be a Burgundy vigneron stuck in Champagne, and considers the bubbles to be a distraction.

This is overplayed. He doesn’t really consider himself a vigneron from anywhere. He has more of a New World mentality, he’s doing his own thing, something no one did before, in somewhere no one ever paid attention to. He’d like to see more people make great wine from “nowhere” (in the sense of regions and appellations that are not remotely celebrated), and hopes that what he has done has done something to break down glass ceilings in that regard.

[William_Kelley]

2017 Blanc de Noirs les Ursules: ok. This is a giant step up from the Val Vilaine. Much more depth and nuance but the same vinosity. A great red burgundy that will age with time. Clearly not champagne and not intended to be. I hope you all have enjoyed drinking these because I am now going to buy every bottle available, price notwithstanding.

You mean that, even though it derives from the 2017 vintage, it isn’t atrocious? Seems you, I, and Cedric didn’t get the memo

[Michael_S_Monie]

From what I understand, Bouchard considers himself to be a Burgundy vigneron stuck in Champagne, and considers the bubbles to be a distraction.

This is overplayed. He doesn’t really consider himself a vigneron from anywhere. He has more of a New World mentality, he’s doing his own thing, something no one did before, in somewhere no one ever paid attention to. He’d like to see more people make great wine from “nowhere” (in the sense of regions and appellations that are not remotely celebrated), and hopes that what he has done has done something to break down glass ceilings in that regard.

What I thought was overplayed was the statement in the OP that “the winemaker also doesn’t like Champagne”. And two of the Roses that I offered him are 2014’s, which I believe you said were outstanding.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

also, champagne isn’t carbonated.

Yes, I’m aware Yaacov. There were several things in my post that were either hyperbole and/or in jest. I appreciate you missing one and pointing it out though. Welcome to the internet! You’re gonna fit in just fine!
Alex

older champagne tends to be much less fizzy as well, taking on white burgundy-like characteristics. you might enjoy those.

some folks decant champagne as well.

However, the rate of cheese rind goes up considerably with older bubbly.

Alex, feel free to ship any more exemplars of champagne forced upon you to me. I will quietly dispose of them for you(not a whisper here) and send you a basic description that you can layer over with hyperbole, and then declare publicly. All shipping costs at my expense…

[Jayaram_Bhat]

I am with you Alex! I thought I was one of the very few people who disliked Champagne. For me the gas completely distracts from the taste of the wine and I don’t get anything beyond the fizz. I have had older Champagnes which lost their gas and liked them. But why would one go looking for flat champagnes when you can have white burgundies? When forced to drink champagnes I prefer blanc de noirs. To me champagnes are like Rombauer run through soda stream!

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

I am with you Alex! I thought I was one of the very few people who disliked Champagne. For me the gas completely distracts from the taste of the wine and I don’t get anything beyond the fizz. I have had older Champagnes which lost their gas and liked them. But why would one go looking for flat champagnes when you can have white burgundies? When forced to drink champagnes I prefer blanc de noirs. To me champagnes are like Rombauer run through soda stream!

Because premox is less of a problem?

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

It’s too bad Alex doesn’t like Champagne, I have found that it pairs perfectly with ruthless sarcasm. Similar levels of acidity, dryness, and both capable of extraordinary depths and complexity when crafted well.

[David_Bu3ker]

It also goes well with greedy acquisitiveness.

[alan_weinberg]

I don’t like champagne. Thanks to generous but misguided friends, I’ve had a chance to try many, both big and small, grower and house, in a range of settings. I’ve knocked Selosse as oxidized and left a full glass of Bollinger’s boring VV francaises. Facsimile, facschmimile. Yeah - I will pass on the Brochet. Don’t like Dom. Anyway, another misguided friend insisted I try some additional carbonated wines that I’d yet to try and sent a few exemplars. The results follow:

Cedric Bouchard 2019 Val Vilaine: wow. This is really delicious. The bubbles dissipate immediately. It’s like someone made champagne for those with an allergy to bubbles and an over-abundance of good taste. I have both and this is wonderful. Googling madly, it’s clear that the story makes sense. The winemaker also doesn’t like champagne and has found a way around it, despite geographic limitations. As it develops, this gets a very leesy character of soft cheese, which I hate and which reminds me of lesser drinks like champagne, but it’s gone by day two. We are on to something.

2017 Blanc de Noirs les Ursules: ok. This is a giant step up from the Val Vilaine. Much more depth and nuance but the same vinosity. A great red burgundy that will age with time. Clearly not champagne and not intended to be. I hope you all have enjoyed drinking these because I am now going to buy every bottle available, price notwithstanding.

Ulysse Collin Les Perrieres: finally! Back to boring old champagne. This has the undercurrent of a decent village white burgundy wrapped in an unripe, bubbly, slightly oxidative envelope. I can’t finish this and hope that it doesn’t overwhelm the mimosas that it will become.

Alex

Early POTY front-runner? (And I like Champagne)

I, too, found the post quite amusing. Even if I love most of those champagnes and Bouchard.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

2017 Blanc de Noirs les Ursules: ok. This is a giant step up from the Val Vilaine. Much more depth and nuance but the same vinosity. A great red burgundy that will age with time. Clearly not champagne and not intended to be. I hope you all have enjoyed drinking these because I am now going to buy every bottle available, price notwithstanding.

You mean that, even though it derives from the 2017 vintage, it isn’t atrocious? Seems you, I, and Cedric didn’t get the memo

Nor did the folks chez Ulysse Collin.

[CFu]

I don’t like champagne. Thanks to generous but misguided friends, I’ve had a chance to try many, both big and small, grower and house, in a range of settings. I’ve knocked Selosse as oxidized and left a full glass of Bollinger’s boring VV francaises. Facsimile, facschmimile. Yeah - I will pass on the Brochet. Don’t like Dom. Anyway, another misguided friend insisted I try some additional carbonated wines that I’d yet to try and sent a few exemplars. The results follow:

Cedric Bouchard 2019 Val Vilaine: wow. This is really delicious. The bubbles dissipate immediately. It’s like someone made champagne for those with an allergy to bubbles and an over-abundance of good taste. I have both and this is wonderful. Googling madly, it’s clear that the story makes sense. The winemaker also doesn’t like champagne and has found a way around it, despite geographic limitations. As it develops, this gets a very leesy character of soft cheese, which I hate and which reminds me of lesser drinks like champagne, but it’s gone by day two. We are on to something.

2017 Blanc de Noirs les Ursules: ok. This is a giant step up from the Val Vilaine. Much more depth and nuance but the same vinosity. A great red burgundy that will age with time. Clearly not champagne and not intended to be. I hope you all have enjoyed drinking these because I am now going to buy every bottle available, price notwithstanding.

Ulysse Collin Les Perrieres: finally! Back to boring old champagne. This has the undercurrent of a decent village white burgundy wrapped in an unripe, bubbly, slightly oxidative envelope. I can’t finish this and hope that it doesn’t overwhelm the mimosas that it will become.

Alex

well captured notes! Love Cedric. Your impression of Val Vilaine to Ursules is very accurate.

[Pau1_M3nk3s]

Love Fred and Ginger!

I’m more of a Ginger and Mary Ann type. Though Fred sings a mean Night and Day.

[Joseph_Grassa]

Last year I had the 2008 Bollinger La Grande Annee and it ruined my dislike of champagne. I loved that bottle, but unfortunately, nothing I have found that is more affordable does much for me at all.

[A_Gillette]

From what I understand, Bouchard considers himself to be a Burgundy vigneron stuck in Champagne, and considers the bubbles to be a distraction.

This is overplayed. He doesn’t really consider himself a vigneron from anywhere. He has more of a New World mentality, he’s doing his own thing, something no one did before, in somewhere no one ever paid attention to. He’d like to see more people make great wine from “nowhere” (in the sense of regions and appellations that are not remotely celebrated), and hopes that what he has done has done something to break down glass ceilings in that regard.

What I thought was overplayed was the statement in the OP that “the winemaker also doesn’t like Champagne”. And two of the Roses that I offered him are 2014’s, which I believe you said were outstanding.

Actually, what’s really played out is people who get highly allocated wines and try to flip them for a small profit just a few days later. But that’s just my opinion. You do what works for you.
Alex

[Greg_K]

Lots of growers, when describing their process, will say that they “look to make great wine first, not great champagne”. Which I think is meant more as a rebellion against the big houses and their perceived pursuit of a consistent mediocrity and lifestyle branding and lack of attention to terroir rather than a dislike of Champagne itself. They can always switch to making Coteaux Champenois, after all - though having tasted some of the efforts, I think I understand why they don’t.

Bouchard is one of my bigger holdings of Champagne, and I don’t think I’d describe any of his wines as resembling red Burgundy. If anything, I find the bubbles a bit too aggressive when young (other than on the Boloree, which I think is his best wine). I defer to William on his ideological approach, but having had his Blanc de Noirs, they’re not so outre for the region that they seem made by someone that hates champagne. Certainly producers like Marguet and Laval are less compromising to me.

As far as the Collin - I’ve had over a case of the Pierrieres over the past year, but I also suspect you had the extended aged version, and I think for that wine the extended barrel aging hasn’t made it a more exciting wine. I’ve always loved the Pierrieres as the laser focused wine in Olivier’s lineup, and I think it has lost a bit of that with the extended age; the first time I had it, years ago, I said that if Roulot made Champagne, it would taste like this (this was when Roulot’s 14s were out). The Roises and Enfers, which are very different wines, are spectacular with the extra age. Based on your preferences, I’m not sure you’d like them, though I also don’t think it matters.
This is where I would, jokingly, say “haha, keep saying negative things about Collin, would make it easier for me to buy!”, but Collin is, in my opinion, the best producer in Champagne and I’m delighted he’s now getting the recognition he deserves even if the wines are tougher to source.

As for the suggestion on this thread made by someone to look into “richer” BdB to mirror Burgundy - oh boy. Up is down, etc.

[Jim_Brennan]

I’m dumbfounded by this thread. Not liking champagne is akin to not liking pizza. The logic just doesn’t compute in my head how it’s possible.

Anyway…

Your misguided friend has good taste.

Hard to imagine two things more categorically different than champagne and pizza. It would have been more effective if you’d said caviar.

Alex, the point of the post was not that Champagne goes with pizza, rather that everybody likes pizza and Champagne.

Really, no apple pie?

[Michael_S_Monie]

This is overplayed. He doesn’t really consider himself a vigneron from anywhere. He has more of a New World mentality, he’s doing his own thing, something no one did before, in somewhere no one ever paid attention to. He’d like to see more people make great wine from “nowhere” (in the sense of regions and appellations that are not remotely celebrated), and hopes that what he has done has done something to break down glass ceilings in that regard.

What I thought was overplayed was the statement in the OP that “the winemaker also doesn’t like Champagne”. And two of the Roses that I offered him are 2014’s, which I believe you said were outstanding.

Actually, what’s really played out is people who get highly allocated wines and try to flip them for a small profit just a few days later. But that’s just my opinion. You do what works for you.
Alex

Do a search on Comerce corner and see if my name comes up anywhere. And apparently you don’t read so well; I’ve had the 2 2014s for years. If I was serious and I’m not, it would be 2.5x profit.

[lleichtman]

It’s too bad Alex doesn’t like Champagne, I have found that it pairs perfectly with ruthless sarcasm. Similar levels of acidity, dryness, and both capable of extraordinary depths and complexity when crafted well.

LOL Marcus.

[Jayaram_Bhat]

I am with you Alex! I thought I was one of the very few people who disliked Champagne. For me the gas completely distracts from the taste of the wine and I don’t get anything beyond the fizz. I have had older Champagnes which lost their gas and liked them. But why would one go looking for flat champagnes when you can have white burgundies? When forced to drink champagnes I prefer blanc de noirs. To me champagnes are like Rombauer run through soda stream!

Because premox is less of a problem?

Lol. There is that. But I can drink younger white Burgundy. I simply don’t have any urge to go out and get Champagne - old or young.

In 2019 I attended a François Auduoze dinner at the Perrier-Jouët cellars. They poured 2008 and a 1955! Séverine Frerson, their first female cellar master joined us too! I didn’t care for either of the champagnes but had to keep my mouth shut!