The Official Panzer Attack Thread

Here you go @Robert_Panzer



That looks like a Pzkw III-H ?

Wine Bottle Holder ...


F’ng hysterical

What’s happening?

As far as I am aware, the tanks take their name from the word for “shell”/“carapace” in German, like a turtle’s shell or even psychologically a shell; it is a somewhat outdated word, like carapace, that people don’t use so much today, but…It is a shame that the word is known moreso for the weapon. There are etymological roots beyond our modern associations, and I far prefer that my name be associated with the natural kingdom than militarism.

Firstly, I’ll say that I sincerely apologize to Thatcher for aspects of my tone, and name calling/insults. There are better/more diplomatic ways to express my disgust for certain behaviors, and I can certainly hear the perspective that the scorched earth firebreathing was a bit much. I was a bit impulsive and hangry yesterday after an 11am-8pm session at the public pool with my 5 year old, a full day in the sun, and not much to eat. So the filters/breaks weren’t appropriately/ideally operational. With a wee bit of reflection, I could artfully choose my words more carefully and express the exact same idea without as much of an inflammatory tone. That being said, the disgust is real and worthy, but needed better focus in its expression.

Secondly, I don’t see Thatcher as a competitor very much at all. We’re sort of playing different games in related but different ponds, and my criticism does not come from that place. It comes moreso from a place of genuine ethical disgust for gray market activity that he is just a small part of (and which is just a part of his business; there is a ton of very cool stuff that he is doing in representing some very cool growers directly).

The crux of my beef, I think, is something far simpler than a micro analysis of international wine regulations/market forces etc or some misplaced “competitor” acrimony; it is something that even children understand. When my 5 year old wants to use a kid’s toy, she has to ask. If she doesn’t ask and just takes it, and it makes the other kid upset, she needs to be accountable for that, apologize, and learn with time and reinforcement what is ok behavior, to be an emotionally and ethically responsible human being whose choices impact others, and that those impacts matter. Young kids are really good at justifying impulsive selfish behaviors, even if they hurt others, and sometimes themselves. But in time, with good modeling/reinforcement, social shaming, and gradual emotional development, they develop a compass for what is fair, respectful, and decent.

I see the dishonest back door dealings of gray marketeers who are knowingly doing what they are not supposed to do (based on the will of the growers who make the “toys”) in this light. The bad behavior of the gray marketeer is reinforced with money, and they receive validation that such behavior is ok from people who support them with their money. The gray marketeers selfish short term take take mentality negatively affects the growers, their partners, and the long term stability of their projects/partnerships. Unchecked, uncriticized, or unpoliced by doing sleuth detective work to find out exactly who is playing dirty, and the cycle churns on.

I believe that Thatcher knows what I’m talking about, just as others who engage in that kind of reach around back door dealings know what i’m talking about. They just choose to do it anyway. They’ve all had their sources squashed at times by growers cutting off the unscrupulous/dishonest, have been contacted directly by growers saying stop it, and they just scavenge to find another source. I believe that calling out this kind of behavior is important.

Like everything in life, I don’t think that things are black and white, and I don’t believe that I encourage black and white dialogue. There is nuance and complexity; the more that we can engage in dialogue that accounts for nuance and complexity, the greater our capacity grows to recognize this. However, I think that total ethical relativism, that everything is squishy and fungible, is a slippery slope, inviting self-justification in spite of the negative impacts it has on others.

There we go. That’s my 5am cup of coffee contribution to resuming this dialogue.

Again, my sincere apologies to Thatcher for going firebreathing Dragon on him, and kudos to him for facing my criticisms in this public forum.



Well, if it is makes you feel better, the word still is in daily use in German as “shell” for turtle’s and the like. It is true, though, that most people’s first association with the word these days is the tank. The obsolete use is “Panzer” for the armor of the knight, though you can still use it for the armor on cars.

Since you originally derailed the purchase thread, I can derail this one with etymology! :berserker:


“Panzer” as the name of a tank makes more sense when you realize it is a truncation of panzerkampfwagen: “armored battle vehicle.”


Not buying this. It’s way too short :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


Isn’t panzerkampfwagen a ultra-sweet Riesling??

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Yes, but it’s shorthand for a longer term.


So I speak fairly little “caveman”/traveler German, but I’ve come to looove their unique slap-words-together-and-make-a-new-poetic-concept-word, like! :

Zeitgeist (literally Timespirit) - "The “spirit of the time” is what’s going on culturally, religiously, or intellectually during a certain period.

Schadenfreude (literally Damagejoy) - "This German word perfectly captures that satisfied feeling everyone gets at times when someone else runs into misfortune. " (particularly those who sort of “have it coming”…)

Torschlusspanik (literally doorclosepanic) “If you’ve ever found yourself thinking, “What have I been doing with my life?” or stressing about that list of goals you still haven’t accomplished, then you’ve probably experienced Torschlusspanik. The word describes the fear, usually as one gets older, that time is running out and important opportunities are slipping away.”

What other great oh-so-uniquely-german-combo-words do you know?

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Autoschlange - car snake. That annoying situation where some bozo is driving 45 in a 55 and there’s dozens of cars backed up behind him.


Perfect for the PA turnpike.


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I won my German class (in a US high school) spelling bee by spelling:
Literally means: finger/nail/remover/bottle, which is a bottle of finger nail polish remover. An example of unusual German restraint by not including the word polish.

I imagine this was the Gestapo version.