The "geniuses" at the LCBO

WINE TALK
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Here in Ontario (province) there is a “board”. Huge company that has maybe 300 wine/spirits shops all over Ontario. Several in every city. Yet, when you place an order online at their specialty website “Vintages” (for bottles not considered “common” and some “behind locked doors” bottles) and want to cancel…be prepared to be run through a gauntlet. No one seems to know how to do a simple task (e.g. cancelling an order over the phone) nor can you cancel online. There’s no option. [soap.gif] What online shopping website does not give you the ability to cancel. Basic. Even the smaller mom & pop e-retailers have this setup.

So, after talking to every one answering phones, I’m told that this matter has been “escalated to her supervisor”. [cheers.gif]

Moral of story…if you order from Vintages…make sure you won’t be cancelling orders. Or be willing to accept the order (takes 2-4 weeks to process and be delivered…even for locals…Toronto) and cancel the order at the shop the wines were to be shipped to (wines are shipped to a LCBO store location you specify…they don’t ship wines to your homes…pfffft…).

2

Ain’t socialism grand?

Public education, public housing, public healthcare, now public wine.

Better transfer this one to “Politics”, moderators.

3

I’ve been working stateside for about three years now. Every time my parents ask me why I don’t want to go back, I tell them that it’s just a desert up in the north with nary a drop to drink.

4

Selection IS a lot better in the US. California especially. Pricing no where as inflated either (as it is here in Toronto). And possibly a few less chuckle heads running things (e.g. LCBO). All I want to do was cancel a freakin order!! Sheeesh…

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Possibly, but by any classical or modern definition, Canada is not socialist. Many, many countries and states have restrictions on alcohol distribution. (Several have state run health care and education too.) I’m not defending those, just pointing out that socialism is a different discussion. OP’s point about ordering from Vintages is a valid one, and useful for Canadian board members.

7

It would be better to just delete your post. There was no politics in the OP. Unless you think that no one ever had a customer service problem at a US “free market” wine store?

Leroy, in the States many stores will let you cancel an order, but will charge you a cancellation fee of 5-15%. But honestly, I’m not sure why you think that cancelling an order should be such a routine thing. I’ve only done it once or twice in over 30 years of buying wine.

8

[rofl.gif]

Vintages is a ploy on the part of the LCBO management to fool the politicians.
“Look ! See what we are doing here at Vintages. We are catering to the elitist element of
the wine consumers market. No need to consider private enterprise.”

Except that the Vintages ploy doesn’t deliver on the 'catering’ part. Short on purchasing; one-time buys;
bureaucratic nonsense regarding allocations and sourcing by consumers; and on and on.

Whenever the politicians consider the private enterprise model, LCBO trots out this Vintages arm of their operation
to demonstrate what a fine job LCBO is doing. The politicians generally don’t go any further.

A couple of years back, however, the Minister responsible for LCBO had an independent study made,
hoping to illustrate that LCBO can do it better. Unfortunately for him, the study strongly concluded that Ontario
should move to private enterprise. Guess what happened? Yes, the Minister buried the report. [wink.gif]

As Benjamin pointed out above, Alberta has a private enterprise model that has been working sine 1994. Government
revenues from this source have never been higher, and the government is no longer involved in labor agreements
with its employees in that field, and capital employed has greatly diminished. Consumers in Alberta have a much
broader selection of wines and better pricing. The model still has a few flaws, but even these don’t suggest returning
to the monopoly of old.

Hank [cheers.gif]

Edited for spelling correction.

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That’s odd! I’ve found their online order system to be very customer-friendly. If the pre-paid wines have arrived at store, you should be able to return them immediately for a full refund. I do know that they changed their return/refund policy recently, but don’t think that that should cause problems in this case. Anyway, good luck!

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Actually, my point was cogent and goes right to the heart of the matter, and politics is involved whether you like it or not. As for moving it to “Politics” that was a little joke but some of you are sense of humor challenged, I realize.

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As an individual living in British Columbia (and previously in Ontario), there is no doubt the government systems in these provinces limits wine buyers significantly both in selection and cost. It is far better in Alberta, and I buy a large portion of my wines there.

Now, as far as health care, housing and education, I’m not sure the nation to the south of me has it a whole lot better…

John

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And politics aside, I just want to make sure that the lone bottle of 2003 Pavie for sale in the province of Ontario doesn’t have a rivulet of red liquid emerging from its capsule and running down the length of the label (though I’ve heard that vintage ports can suffer from some seepage and not be affected [stirthepothal.gif]). True story.

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Fortunately the LCBO is not the only route available to wine lovers. There are a few companies around who supply small-production wines, often through the Private Order system. I don;t want to be accused of advertising but am happy to share the details of the comapny I work with. Company is rather a grand term actually, she’s a Lawyer and does the wine importing in her spare time for fun and to get hold of decent wine for her own table.

The LCBO, like other state monopolies, say they have “the best” wines in the world but because of their size and conditions, they are limited to buying large-volume, branded wines. I feel really sorry for wine lovers who live under those conditions.

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One, privatizing would be great for Ontarians. Then we’d have many good wine/spirits shops. A lot better selection (brands & vintages) and no more inflated pricing (sometimes over 100% more than the same bottle would cost in the US). And less morons running the online side of the business. Or so you’d think. The staff behind the scenes at the LCBO/Vintages are UNBELIEVABLE!!!

The LCBO is sort of like a “bargain basement retailer”. They buy in bulk certain wines from a producer. Never carrying the full list (doesn’t happen in LA…where I’ll be in a few months…GRIN!) from that producer.

What gets me is their level of stupidity behind the scenes. They take stupidity to new levels. Yesterday I was told that orders take 24 hours to cancel (which in itself is ridiculous). Today they tell me they can’t cancel it because the order was picked up. But they did provide me with a refund receipt paper scanned. They are making it up as they go. pileon

The one good thing I can say about them is…they’re polite. :slight_smile:

Moral of story…if you order online from Vintages (and willing to wait 2-4 weeks for processing/delivery<-----SERIOUSLY??? Even for Torontonians??..www.amazon.ca takes less than one business day to deliver…order processed the same day order was placed…unless the item specifies it will take several days to process because they I suppose need time to receive it from their supplier) DO NOT CANCEL!! All future purchases for me (locally) will be in-person at a LCBO location.

As for pricing in Canada…while Alberta does offer more selection…in some cases better pricing…some vintages are still inflated. I think I saw a 2005 Ch Haut Brion (750ml) for $2200 CAD at one shop. Inline with Ontario pricing. You need to know the market. US/Canadian.

Some one should go to the LCBO/Vintages office…put staff in a head lock and do a “McFly!!! McFLY!!!” (Back to the Future movie reference…bully puts Michael J Fox character in head lock and starts wrapping Fox’s character’s head with knuckles). :slight_smile:

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I wouldn’t characterize the LCBO as a bargain basement retailer, Leroy, nor would I classify their personnel as being stupid.

As a monopoly, with the word “Control” tabled as part of their name, the LCBO, like any other government alcoholic beverage monopoly,
is merely exercising what they perceive as their mandate i.e. complete control on anything to do with the importation and sale of alcohol.
If you read my earlier post, the Vintages concept in practice is a ploy to fool the politicians into thinking that LCBO can do it better than
anyone else. The fact that Vintages is a retailing failure has little to do with its primary purpose. It has managed to “fool the politicians” over
and over.

While I’m a staunch supporter of private enterprise in this field, LCBO does manage to acquire small quantities ( smaller than their purchasing power would
warrant) of some pretty attractive wines - those that I wouldn’t characterize as belonging in a bargain basement. Nor would I agree that their policies and
practices are made up as they go. Most civil servants are loathe to vere from the rules and regulations that are laid down, so you’ll not find anyone who
may be willing to step outside of the harness. They won’t have somebody standing by to deal with your specific call regarding a cancellation, and the probable
time factor might well be 24 hours to cancel and order. That time delay doesn’t appear to be out of line with the system in place. With regard to a price for
2005 Haut Brion in Alberta, why wouldn’t that merchant take advantage of a market that began with Futures buying in 2007? No one HAS to buy it, Leroy.
It’s there - take it or leave it.

Obviously you believe that you have been wronged by LCBO, and you may very well have a strong position to support that. That isn’t something I can comment upon.
I’m not going to argue that selection, service and price in parts of the U.S. aren’t there. I’ve also witnessed non-deliveries and punitive prices for many wines
purported to be sold there. In fact some consumers wait literally “years” to receive the wines they purchased on the internet. Those merchants who took their orders
did so at a price that they may now find difficult to fill…so the consumer just waits and waits. It seems from your post that " Torontonians " somehow expect instant satisfaction.

Hank [cheers.gif]

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Very well said… Hank.[welldone.gif]

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Hi Hank et al.,

First, I wasn’t being literal. But the LCBO certainly does seem to run things very similar to a bargain basement shop (even if they do sell bluechip wines like Ch Haut Brion…mostly not key vintages…). As I said. They only carry specific wines from certain producers. Never their complete line of “current vintages”. Something BB retailers, like Costco, do.

As for my comment about how I think they (office staff…customer service) make things up as they go…it definitely looked that way. Saying one thing one day then doing a complete 180 the next. Things they should know by heart.

Future purchases…in-person only. Even then buying only specific wines and spirits with the least inflated markups. I’m looking forwards to enjoying many wines and spirits while in LA. Where the selection is one of the best in North America (if not the best) and the prices are good. Helps to have a stronger dollar. :slight_smile:

Message to any one considering ordering from Vintages…do so at your own risk. Deal only at their front-end. At the LCBO locations. :slight_smile:

Well I’ve done venting…Cheers!!

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Message to any one considering ordering from Vintages…do so at your own risk.


Leroy…any suggestion for a guy living in Montreal, Quebec ?

I need to order some wines from Vintage - for example : a lot of 3 bs of Petrus 2010.

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For those of you don’t know, Hank is a trailblazer for liquor privatization in Canada.

Canadian wine lovers owe him a huge vote of thanks.

http://www2.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=0ab3013c-3291-46fe-82c9-a98e407bf4fe

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What has not been mentioned reference privatization is that I can import any wine I want from anywhere in the world into Alberta. I pay modest taxes / duty / and shipping of course. This still translates into huge savings (especially when the Canadian dollar is now worth more than the US dollar). So although I live in the only privatized province in Canada, the real reward is not buying wine from retailers within the province; it is the ability to privately import whatever wine I want from anywhere (at serious savings). This includes any wine list I can get on. Seriously, I can now have any wine I want, without paying the mark up a retailer in Alberta would charge if they had said wine in the first place. I am sure most retailers in Alberta do not want this to become common knowledge for obvious reasons.