The "geniuses" at the LCBO

WINE TALK
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Hmmm…how about some DRCs ? [wow.gif] Hank’s favourite wine is LT. [cheers.gif]


Seriously, I can now have any wine I want, without paying the mark up a retailer in Alberta would charge if they had said wine in the first place. I am sure most retailers in Alberta do not want this to become common knowledge for obvious reasons.

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Stevie…thank for the link for the articles.

I read but very surprise by the lines quoted in the articles which stated :

He ( = Hank ) said : Producers in Burgundy are * …basssical ly farmers …, plant vines and harvest the crops to produce wine *…but then added the following words ( which I believe is a mis-quote or simply a quote out of context [scratch.gif] ) : “They are not sophisticated people, just hardworking and friendly.”

Hank is much a gentleman …and I admire what he had done for Alberta wine lovers [cheers.gif] .

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Benjamin probably forgot to add that the wines he may source in this manner are those that do not already have AGLC (Alberta Gaming & Liquor Commission)
clearance for importing to Alberta. Perhaps he isn’t interested in the wines that are now imported here, and chooses to elect wines that aren’t already being imported here.
Either that, or he doesn’t understand the rules/regulations under which he can avail himself of wines in that manner. Such wines are also for personal home consumption only.

And, Peter, the wines produced by DRC are not available to Benjamin, or any other person wishing to import them, using the Private Import process.

Personally I believe that the AGLC has erred in their judgment by permitting broad importation of wines under this Private Import process.
AGLC extracts large license fees from importers/retailers and then undermines their market through this program. There are instances where the wines being imported
go against the spirit of the program. It’s not my concern, however, since I no longer hold an importing license.

Hank [cheers.gif]

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Hank…much appreciate your info and I love them. It was a joke about getting DRC [wink.gif] .

I have wine friends who are importers ( of wines ) and some of them used to work for SAQ. It is quite a complicate process which involve many aspect, specially in politics.

I also heard that private import processs exist in Quebec, Canada but only for personal comsumption only.

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Personally I believe that the AGLC has erred in their judgment by permitting broad importation of wines under this Private Import process.
AGLC extracts large license fees from importers/retailers and then undermines their market through this program. There are instances where the wines being imported
go against the spirit of the program. It’s not my concern, however, since I no longer hold an importing license.

Hank

Hank…I would like to learn a little more.

From what I understand the above quote…there are 2 kind of licences in Alberta for importation of wines : (1) one for importer/retailers and (2) importer/private-comsumption. Am I right ?

If so…I understand your statement re AGLC has erred as it is definitely …going against the spirite of the program ( or fairness.

BTW…how large is the license fee from importers/retaileers when compare to importer for private comsumption.

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There is no license required for private consumption imports of wine, Peter. A number if charges apply for each wine imported -
such things as GST, Provincial and Federal Taxes on alcoholic beverages, SKU charge, which I believe runs somewhere around
$75 per wine and vintage, transportation charges, which could be much higher than regular imports due to the minimal size of each
order placed, etc. I don’t know all of these charges, since I haven’t engaged in any such purchases. I believe there is a minimum of a case
needed for each import.

These charges apply for any import through a licensed importer/distributor/retailer ( of which there are only three or four in Alberta ), and also
for the thousands of agency imports, which wind up in the system for re-distribution to licensed liquor stores and restaurants. It’s probably similar to SAQ
except that ownership of the wines lies with SAQ, as opposed to the agents at the consignment warehouse system.

The consignment warehouse, operated by an independent under contract with AGLC, is NOT temperature controlled and it’s not unusual to see wines that have
suffered heat damage ( stains running down from the overflowed corks ) in liquor stores. Few liquor stores have any temperature controlled storage, and they
generally just order a week’s supply at a time. The handful of licensed wine importers/distributors/retailers is another situation. They store their products
outside the consignment warehouse and two that I know of have temperature controlled warehouses - the other(s) do not.

Benjamin spoke about wines he sources through mailers, but these begin at the winery’s suggested retail price. By the time the various charges are assessed
and transportation of a small quantity of wine, the actual price paid by one of these so-called private importers is well above the retail price which might
apply in the normal process through an established retailer here, if that wine was available. Some wineries do not make their wines available to established
importers because they can derive more in selling them at retail through their mailing lists. The Ex. Cellars prices (i.e. FOB Winery ) might be just 50-60% of
the winery’s suggested retail if sold to an established importer. Benjamin may speculate that he is receiving his wines at prices that are well below the normal
retail market, but I would question that. Sometime it’s better to not know what you don’t know. [highfive.gif]

Hank [cheers.gif]

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Hi Peter,

If you’re from Montreal why not order from the SAQ? They seem to have better pricing/selection than the LCBO. If you don’t find what you want there I could recommend some Albertian wine shops. Or even better…if you’re about to consider a vacation travel to LA or NYC…pricing is MUCH better. Maybe 50% less than what we pay in Canada. You can bring back not more than $750.00 worth though so depending on the vintage of your bottle of Petrus…

In general, if you have to buy bluechip wines…go south!! :slight_smile:

And what is it about liquor companies and e-commerce? I just ordered some beer glasses from Guiness and Alexander Keith…they have no option for you to cancel should you change your mind. Not that I was. Just noticed this. Wonder if it’s so for all liquor producers in e-commerce.

Most other e-retailers have a better setup. Or those that I’ve used. There’s almost always a way to cancel within a reasonable time. Usually before the order is processed. And you can usually do it yourself online. Saving every one work.

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LOL Hank!

I could give numerous examples of thousands of dollars in savings opposed to buying from retail in Alberta. The general rule of thumb (my average cost) is +30% the listed US price (if the dollar is at par - currently ours is worth more!). This +30% includes duty /tax /shipping /and short term storage!

To suggest that the AGLC has erred in their judgment in private importation shows your true colors as a retailer (which I have nothing against). You might as-well fight for the US (some states) tiered system or go back to a monopoly if this is the way you think. Removing private importation would only hurt Albertan consumers!! Albertans can learn how to utilize the process from this WS thread: http://forums.winespectator.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6826053161/m/841101507/p/1 my WS Handle is Cellar_Fiend. If you have any specific questions on how the process works that the thread does not answer, please PM me. I have privately imported wine too many times to count without incident.

Speaking of which, I have my wines shipped from my storage facility in the US twice a year to Edmonton. In the spring and in the fall. This eliminates any weather / shipping concerns Hank alluded to (cooked bottles etc).

If you ever want to get your hands on some Bedrock / SQN / Lilian / Match / Maison Ilan / Scarecrow (the list goes on and on) in Alberta - private importation is your only route. (Let alone the insane mark-up a retailer would charge for the same bottles if they actually had it in this province).

I have bought wine from numerous Albertan retailers in the past, and sometimes they have pricing that reflects reality -more often than not it is insanely marked up compared to our neighbors in the south. Case in point - Your former store “The Wine Cellar” (which I have purchased from on a regular basis) currently lists this bottle of 2005 Ducru Beaucaillou http://thewinecellar.ab.ca/ourcellar/selectwine.asp?Type=15&CountryID=2 for $425.95 Canadian dollars. I can buy the same wine from the Wine exchange in California You are being redirected... for $189.99 US dollars. If I add an average of plus 30% to this price (which includes shipping from the retailer to my storage unit in California, shipping from the storage unit to Alberta, import duties, import taxes) the cost per bottle delivered to my door is only $247.00!!! This is not including the exchange rate - which at this point is better the US Dollar!!! That is a minimum savings of $178.95 on one bottle of wine!!!

You cannot honestly argue this, if you have consumer interest at heart.

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Always great to see Hank post here. This fine gentleman, and his staff, spent a lot of time with me when I first became a serious wine buyer.

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I don’t see the LCBO having to fool anyone with the Vintages program or trot out anything because they don’t need to at all. They are a government mandated monopoly and all surveys of the public through the many years show that Ontarians are satisfied with the LCBO and there’s absolutely no push from the government or Ontario taxyapers to privatize alcohol sales in this province.

There’s always talk here and there from a very small minority of people (and I’ve done my share of ranting on the WS board where LCBO topics are discussed more than other boards) but to my chagrin, we’re immaterial because the vast majority support LCBO. What they do “trot out” is their dividend to the Ontario government which is close to $2 billion including taxes and increasing. They are a cash cow that enjoy the support of both politicians and the public alike. The politicians “don’t go further” not because of Vintages program, but because Ontarians like it that way.

As far as I know, the Ontario Liquor Control Act empowers the LCBO to control the sale and delivery of all liquor in Ontario (including setting minimum prices). Consignment sales are done by authority of LCBO and to paraphrase one agent, ‘we do not sell beverage alcohol, we facilitate purchase from the LCBO.’ So, as I understand it, all sales of alcohol must route through LCBO. I would be interested in knowing what this lawyer and the company you work with are doing to get around LCBO control? Please do tell!

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Leroy…thanks for the info.

I tried to order from SAQ but got no luck. You are 100% correct in that LA or NYC pricing is MUCH better, specially so with Bord. I envoy people who live in NYC.

So far…I never have to cancel any order with LCBO when I ordered wines from Vintage. Hope I do not have to do that… [cheers.gif]

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Sometime it’s better to not know what you don’t know. Hank

Wise words - Hank… [bye.gif]