The Bourbon Thread

[Terence_T-Bone_Livingston]

@Tim Thomas

@Peter Hirsch

I own around 100 bottles of hard liquor, of which at least 1/2 (and maybe 2/3) are bourbon and maybe 10-15 of the bourbons are open.

Do you find the taste changing (oxidation?) after a bottle has been open for a period of time. I’ve been drinking some of last years Stagg and bottles of Thomas Handy and Pappy 23 that have been open maybe 2 years. I find the Pappy 23 so different from the 20 that I can’t tell if it has changed, but it seems to me the Stagg and Handy have lost a bit of their taste. I’ve been tempted to open a Jefferson 17 or 18 from my stash, but I’m starting to think I want to only open one special bottle at a time and drink it until gone, over the course of a month or two, along with everyday Blanton’s or Four Roses.

I’m not Peter Hirsch, but I have a bottle of Pappy 23 and 20 that have been open for a couple of years. The 20 has actually gotten better, mellowing out over the last 6 months (it was a bit hot when first opened). Have found the lower end bourbons fall apart a little over time when opened (happened with a Buffalo Trace bottle).

[David_Kaufman]

Speaking of Pappy, I just got wind that Pappy has landed in our local market and will likely hit stores on Friday morning. Total Wine said they are centralizing all Pappy allocations to one store. Which one is anyone’s guess.

[JKim]

@David Kaufman

Speaking of Pappy, I just got wind that Pappy has landed in our local market and will likely hit stores on Friday morning. Total Wine said they are centralizing all Pappy allocations to one store. Which one is anyone’s guess.

Scottsdale or SoCal?

[David_Kaufman]

@Peter Hirsch

@Scott Butler

@Travis Fantz

In comparison how does the hirsch 28 compare to the 20 and 16?

It doesn’t. The Hirsch 28 is not in the same league as AH Hirsch 16/20. I haven’t had the 20, but I paid $200 for a bottle of the 16 and it was something I’ll never forget.

I’ll bite. The AH Hirsch 16 and 20 have become like mermaids. You hear about them but never see them, and the ancient mariners tell you how they were the greatest and most beautiful ever.

The S-W juice is great juice. And the A.H Hirsch 16 and 20 are (were?) great bourbons. But they’re so rare now that they’re like talking about 1947 Cheval Blanc. They just have to exist in a category by themselves as any comparison is not just about the bourbon (say a blind taste) but about the difficulty someone went through to procure a bottle (or how they had the foresight to put a few cases away back in the '90s or even very early '00s).

The Hirsch 28 is an amazing Bourbon (to me, I like Bourbons with a low rye content, don’t love that spicy/peppery signature). But I like older/darker Bourbons. I’d put it up there with Pappy 20 and Pappy 23, and with the other ‘high end’ longer aged Bourbons (say Parkers 27). Unfortunately it’s another bourbon that’s now ‘gone’, not sure if Preiss/Anchor can find the juice to make any more, and I wonder if in 10 years we’re going to be writing about the Mermaid that was Hirsch 28!

I realize you posted this over a year ago but a buddy just texted me this pic of Hirsch 20 on the shelf at TW. He asked the sales rep how long they’ve had it and he said “at least a year” for a 3 bottles sitting there. Is this a no-brainer that I should run to purchase?

[David_Kaufman]

@JKim

@David Kaufman

Speaking of Pappy, I just got wind that Pappy has landed in our local market and will likely hit stores on Friday morning. Total Wine said they are centralizing all Pappy allocations to one store. Which one is anyone’s guess.

Scottsdale or SoCal?

Scottsdale

[scott_c]

@David Kaufman

I realize you posted this over a year ago but a buddy just texted me this pic of Hirsch 20 on the shelf at TW. He asked the sales rep how long they’ve had it and he said “at least a year” for a 3 bottles sitting there. Is this a no-brainer that I should run to purchase?

That’s a different Hirsch 20 than the A.H. Hirsch 20 that Peter Hirsch was talking about. Confused yet?

[scott_c]

See: http://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/2689T/lots/817

[David_Kaufman]

@scott c

@David Kaufman

I realize you posted this over a year ago but a buddy just texted me this pic of Hirsch 20 on the shelf at TW. He asked the sales rep how long they’ve had it and he said “at least a year” for a 3 bottles sitting there. Is this a no-brainer that I should run to purchase?

That’s a different Hirsch 20 than the A.H. Hirsch 20 that Peter Hirsch was talking about. Confused yet?

That’s a lot of Hirsches

[Jody_Smith]

@David Kaufman

@scott c

@David Kaufman

I realize you posted this over a year ago but a buddy just texted me this pic of Hirsch 20 on the shelf at TW. He asked the sales rep how long they’ve had it and he said “at least a year” for a 3 bottles sitting there. Is this a no-brainer that I should run to purchase?

That’s a different Hirsch 20 than the A.H. Hirsch 20 that Peter Hirsch was talking about. Confused yet?

That’s a lot of Hirsches

I’ve jotted down in my notes that if the “A.H.” Is missing, it’s not the same bourbon. I don’t know why, but that’s my note.

Peter, I don’t know about the 50th, but the regular Bookers is my go to along side the Blanton’s and FR1B. Maybe a consequence of my market, but those 3 keep me happy!

[Peter_Hirsch]

@Tim Thomas

@Peter Hirsch

I own around 100 bottles of hard liquor, of which at least 1/2 (and maybe 2/3) are bourbon and maybe 10-15 of the bourbons are open.

Do you find the taste changing (oxidation?) after a bottle has been open for a period of time. I’ve been drinking some of last years Stagg and bottles of Thomas Handy and Pappy 23 that have been open maybe 2 years. I find the Pappy 23 so different from the 20 that I can’t tell if it has changed, but it seems to me the Stagg and Handy have lost a bit of their taste. I’ve been tempted to open a Jefferson 17 or 18 from my stash, but I’m starting to think I want to only open one special bottle at a time and drink it until gone, over the course of a month or two, along with everyday Blanton’s or Four Roses.

Nope, though I can’t honestly remember a bottle that’s been open for longer than a year. When a bottle gets to the 1/2 way point, I tend to just work that one down until it’s gone.

I’ve heard this before but I haven’t heard anyone with the science behind this. We know that Madeira can stay stable for many years when it’s open, and the alcohol content is well below that of Bourbon. I think it does not change, but willing to be proven wrong, need men of science to opine

[Peter_Hirsch]

@David Kaufman

I realize you posted this over a year ago but a buddy just texted me this pic of Hirsch 20 on the shelf at TW. He asked the sales rep how long they’ve had it and he said “at least a year” for a 3 bottles sitting there. Is this a no-brainer that I should run to purchase?

No. That’s Hirsch (not AH Hirsch) 20 year old American whiskey. It’s nothing like either the AH Hirsch 16/20 or the Hirsch 25/28 Bourbon. It’s a good whiskey, worth the $50 or whatever they charge, but not ‘magical’

[Peter_Hirsch]

So you have AH Hirsch 16yo and 20yo. These are unicorns.
You have Hirsch (made by preiss) bourbon, also Hirsch 20yo American whiskey, and Hirsch 25/28 yo Bourbon. The latter (25/28) is no longer produced, the juice is gone.
The 16/20 AH Hirsch came from barrels that were distilled in 1974 and put in tank in 1990 and 1994. Long, long gone.
The Hirsch bourbon is everywhere for like $30 and it sucks.
The Hirsch 20yo American Whiskey is everywhere for like $50 and is ok.

[Michae1_P0wers]

@Peter Hirsch

So you have AH Hirsch 16yo and 20yo. These are unicorns.
You have Hirsch (made by preiss) bourbon, also Hirsch 20yo American whiskey, and Hirsch 25/28 yo Bourbon. The latter (25/28) is no longer produced, the juice is gone.
The 16/20 AH Hirsch came from barrels that were distilled in 1974 and put in tank in 1990 and 1994. Long, long gone.
The Hirsch bourbon is everywhere for like $30 and it sucks.
The Hirsch 20yo American Whiskey is everywhere for like $50 and is ok.

You know Peter it’s funny, but I had the Hirsch bourbon several years ago when it first appeared, totally different bottle and label then, and it was a really decent bottle. Had a glass of a more recent bottle and it sucked. Not sure what that original bottle was but it was pretty good.

[Barry_P]

I’ve got a local source for some of the AH 16, restaurant not retail, and whenever I stop to have a nip, I always am shocked at how good that stuff is. To me, and I’ve said this before, it tastes more like a grand champ cognac than a bourbon. Don’t know how they got that profile.

[Peter_Hirsch]

Barry. Places like that are hard to come by, that’s pretty great!

I’ve really run out of places with great old bourbons at great prices. All have caught on to the correct value, no deals to be had here anymore.

Michael. Who knows, maybe they were using older/better barrels and now are just aging the stuff for 2 years before tossing it in. Blanton used to be 7-9 years old, now it’s around 4 I think. Everything out the door faster these days…

[Travis_Fantz]

There is a supply of the 16 year old humidor set here in oregon. $1000 for the set.

[Peter_Hirsch]

The gold foil 16yo (the most recent bottling) goes for around $750 - $800 in auction right now. Older (rarer) ones can go for up to $2,000 and the 20yo goes for north of $1,000

[David_B]

Pretty good deal on big bottles of EC12 right now at Costco in Mountain View, CA.

[John_Styrnol]

EC12 is not that bad at all, but for that price I can get Rare Breed, away better bourbon. Have not tried the new higher proof one yet though.

[Peter_Hirsch]

John. That’s $35 for a 1.75L bottle. That’s a hell of a deal.