My first post. I’m a 30-year-old outdoor enthusiast passionate about hunting, fly fishing, and foraging to create a New Nordic-style cuisine and combining that with wine is for me a passion.
Over the past 5 years, I’ve delved into the world of wine, discovering my likes and dislikes. And I’m all in on the classic regions: Champagne, Bordeaux, Burgundy, Northern Rhône, Loire, Germany, Piedmont, Tuscany and Spain. Also, starting to look at Portugal, Austria and Great Britain. I appreciate a good glass of New World Pinot or Chardonnay, but not loving it.
Drawing inspiration from the forum, especially the “if you could go back 25 years” thread, I’m eager to start my own cellar. But, the more I read about wine - the more confused I get.
I have started a little with wines like:
2015 Cappellano Barolo Pie Rupestris
2015 Clos Fourtet
2015 Guigal Hermitage
2016 Chateau D’Issan
2016 Chateau Talbot
2016 Chateau du Tertre
2016 Antinori Tignanello
2017 Fontodi Flaccianello
Only reds so far, but I consume approx 40% reds, 40% whites and 20% champagne.
Considering the valuable insights here, I pose a modified question: If you were starting your collection today, what guidance would you offer for the next 25 years?
Hi Matsl
I’d say that list of wines is not starting little as they’re pretty high end. No bad thing, as they should all be long term wines, that ought to shine when their time comes, but depending on your tastes for aged wine, that time may be a decade or three away.
Probably the biggest piece of advice would be to find a source for wines with some age on them, be it an auction house, wine shop, or friends happy to trade. Why do this?
To discover what your tastes are like for older wine, which might help guide you when to open those bottles
To act as ‘cellar defenders’, sacrificing themselves to allow you to cellar the other wines until they’re likely to be in the best level of maturity for you.
Good luck on the journey, and I hope it brings many interesting wines.
Navigating the nuances of aging potential and optimal purchasing strategies perplex me. Any insights or advice on these aspects would be greatly appreciated!
Sometimes there are no perfect answers, but what resonates with you. For example, I like 375mls for smaller drinking amounts and checking in on 750s development, and have never opened a magnum. Others open magnums all the time.
I have read about the importance of “Cellar defenders,” and I would absolutely start applying that.
Attending a Bordeaux tasting featuring wines from Mouton Rothschild, Lafite Rothschild, Leoville Las Cases, Pichon Baron, and more spanning 1960 to 2010 was a bit overwhelming and complex for me at the time, but WOW! It sparked my instant love for aged Bordeaux.
For ageing potential, most critics (sensibly) cheat. If a label is known to last 15 years in a mediocre vintage and up to 35 years in a great / structured vintage, they’ll absolutely start from that range. If they think it’s robust, then they might suggest 25-35 years, if comparatively feeble, they might say 15-20 years. Trying to come up with a drinking window on a completely new wine is way harder.
Optimal purchasing strategy?
first and foremost, buy what you like / enjoy, and then explore outwards from that e.g. If you like Hermitage, try a Cote-rotie
Leave yourself wiggle room to go off in different directions if you try something totally new and love it. A cellar full of what you used to like (or used to think you liked) is a burden. Instead, let your palate lead you in different directions over time.
It’s great to explore, but easy to feel lost in the vast volume of wines. I found it easier to focus on a relatively small number of regions to build up confidence / knowledge, then regularly follow an interesting wine into a new region.
Think about when they might peak, to ensure they’re all not 25 years away from when you’d want to drink them. Getting as soon as possible to a balance of fully mature / ready / approachable / unready could be a very good focus.
Ian, your tips are awesome, and I’m really grateful for your advice.
Understanding how critics estimate aging potential makes a lot more sense now. Your tips on buying wine are spot-on:
• Beginning with what I enjoy and branching out.
• Staying open to trying new things.
• Keeping it simple by focusing on a few regions.
• Thinking about when wines hit their peak for a well-balanced collection.
My main problem was attempting to grasp everything about wine across all regions in the past five years, leading to information overload. It makes more sense to specialize a bit and focus on specific areas.
Your insights are making this wine journey a lot less confusing. Cheers!
Ensure you have proper storage for long term wines.
How much storage do you have? Personally this has been an issue for me. If you are only able to store a few hundred wines, then long term wines like those from Bordeaux, Northern Rhone and Piemonte will quickly fill up your space before the wines are ready to drink. And then you have to become very selective.
Explore! I am 37 and started collecting when I was around 30 as well. I already “cleaned up”/replaced things I thought I was more fond of, than I actually was, a few times.
We don’t know your wine budget. What I would suggest highly depends on that. You can build interesting collections at all price points!
If possible, taste wines with age on them. Maybe you won’t like how some types age. Sucks to find out after 20 years.
Liking these, and whilst I absolutely agree with 2. I’ll also add a counterpoint, that it can be very sensible to have a limit to wine storage space, that helps keep buying in check. Forumites with cellars over 10,000 bottles do exist
Never buy more than 3 bottles of any wine. Your tastes will invariably change.
Buy approximately 3 good wines for 1 everyday drinker.
Try to set a yearly budget/# of bottles bought and stick to it.
I forgot one. Backfill if you find something you like and its available in older vintages. Cutting 5-20+ years waiting time is awesome. I got a decent amount of Nebbiolo and Syrah with some decent age on them now because I’ve been backfilling.
You wrote Germany as something you like. Thats pretty broad, but if you like riesling with a degree of sweetness then go get em’. I regret not starting earlier on those. You can get top top quailty wines that will last a lifetime in large quantities at low(ish) prices. Again, backfilling can be your friend here.
Absolutely, I’m diving into German Rieslings. A friend blew me away with a Bernhard Jakoby Erdener Busslay Kerner Auslese 1982 at a dinner party, and I’m sold! Currently eyeing producers like JJ Prüm, Egon Müller, Ziliken, Wittmann, Kunstler, J Haart, and more. Also, big on Alsace Rieslings, particularly from Zind Humbrecht.
I’d subscribe to WA and follow William Kelley’s suggestions. Some thoughts would be Bruno Lorenzon, Jean Marc Vincent, and Vincent Durueil-Janthial but those are among the most well regarded and expensive Cc Producers.
as they’re pretty high end. No bad thing, as they should all be long term wines, that ought to shine when their time comes, but depending on your tastes for aged wine, that time may be a decade or three away.