RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

While I suspect that the reverberations from the Spectrum/Vanquish auction will continue for some time, it also makes sense, as several posts have, to ask what can be done to minimize the amount of fraudulent wine that reaches the auction market.

The question for the auction houses is simple: do they not have a responsibility to their customers (buyers), from a business standpoint at a minimum, to take reasonable measures to assure the quality and authenticity of what they sell? Certainly, they all concur in wanting us as buyers to think they do, with their staffs of “specialists” and their vivid catalog descriptions of long hours examining dusty bottles. With few exceptions, this remains more in the realm of puffing than of actuality. Nevertheless, the issue is not going to go away, and the auction houses need to face up to it themselves, or the regulatory and legal systems will in time force them to do so. While I don’t profess to have a neat set of answers, I thought that, in the interests of starting a dialogue, it could be useful to proffer a few observations and suggestions. I’ve written at more length on this subject in a blog post (www.oldvinenotes.com), but in summary:

–If the auction houses want to get serious about this issue, then at a minimum, they need to hire a truly independent (and experienced) third party to vet the expensive/questionable bottles. Because of its widespread use in the art world, the idea of independent expert review will certainly not be a novelty to the large auction houses. For it to work properly, however, there would need to be far greater cooperation from the producers. Building a reliable database of information is going to be key to any such effort.

–Once the obvious fakes are excluded, there still can and should be a market for those bottles that are neither of impeccable provenance, nor counterfeit—but that may still provide great drinking experiences. It just has to be a market in which they find their own level. The possible model for achieving this is one that takes its cue from the securities industry: full disclosure of all material facts that would affect a reasonable buyer’s decision. Presumably, if everything relevant about provenance, condition and storage, is disclosed, then informed buyers can make their own decisions, and bottles will find different price levels depending on the perceived risk. Real due diligence has to be a cornerstone of this approach, and I would advocate this be overseen by truly independent third parties, as a part of the independent expert review process mentioned above, and not by in-house personnel or “captive” third parties.

– There will be several challenges for the auction houses in adopting such an approach, which I address in my blog post for those who are interested. In summary, none of the objections that will inevitably be raised poses an insuperable obstacle, and I think that a system can be worked out to prevent most frauds—provided a critical mass of auction houses would be willing to do so. If I’m right, then given their current reluctance to step up, what the auction houses may need is a little “gentle” encouragement from us, their customers—by making our preferences known through platforms such as this, or in direct conversation, but also in the way they will best understand, through our patronage of those who will stand up and do the right thing, and refusal to do business—any business–with those who won’t.

Anthony,
It isnt that easy. Just about all auction houses had some issues in the past, there a couple of exceptions of course. The Palmer dinner is a paid event.

I agree about attending complimentary dinners.

Tell that to Sotheby’s when they have to give back lots of money when it turns out that lots of Ghandara sculptures are fake…

What is Sotheby’s rep like?

My parents bought and sold from many auction houses and from sales where obvious fakes were sold. Just because they bought genuine items in those sales doesn’t mean they endorse the business or the practice… It is a business and every business has done shady things in their time…

People knowingly sell fakes… There is a pay-off… Not enough is done to root it out, whether it be by auction houses big or small…

This is not solely a wine related issue but an auction houses related issue and it revolves around a “gentleman’s club” type atmosphere. If there is a deal to be had, there is a deal to be had…

I am not for an instance saying Don is in this group because clearly he isn’t, but there are plenty of so-called “experts” who think they know more than they do. Many of them work in auction houses and it boosts their egos… The amount of things my parents have to do to show them, like Don has here, is incredible.

Opportunities are opportunities and it is the privileged who are able to take a moral stance and say No.

If I want to drink a wine and the price is correct and the wine is correct, does it matter if I buy it from Vanquish, a drug-dealer, a billionaire or an off-license?? Not a jot… I want the wine, it is correct and the right price. And who is to say that the off-license isnt unwittingly selling me a fake? Or because we deal with them all the time, then that’s OK, and they can be forgiven?

I’m sure the big boys sell fakes all the time, but no-one notices or aren’t that bothered because it is from somewhere with lots of stock… Etc, etc, and because people like Don or my parents just don’t have the time to trawl through millions of auction catalogues.

This : U.S. doctors scour drug supplies after fake Avastin found kind of puts things in perspective.

A.

Yes, Kevin, it is that easy. These guys knew what they were doing. They rejected over 60 lots of Rudy’s wine, and this is whay they accepted. For some glasses of Palmer? I just don’t get it. Where is the moral outrage? Not singleing you out, for there are many. Jono bought several lots of wine. The guys posting in that thread about the Palmer tasting. I just don’t get it.

Lewis,
I may not be a major player but I have financial interest in this game. My point is there are a lot of other auction houses who also sold fake wines in the past perhaps with having some doubts regarding the authenticity. Should we also not buy any wines from them? I am just pointing out that this is a very risky and perhaps not so kosher business. For the record, I have been very critical of the auction market not just for the fakes but also the market manipulation.

Kevin, I understand what you say. I’m not an insider and maybe there is convincing evidence that Acker knew those Ponsot wines were fakes, but if there is, I’m not aware of it. Maybe one could make a case that they should have known. “Should have known” is very different from “did know”, IMO.

I also know that things can get blown out of proportion, especially on the internet. I am not a fan of message board lynch mobs, which have a knack for jumping to unsupported conclusions. However, having said that, the history of Rudy K pedaling fake wines through multiple auction houses is pretty well established by now, although such was not the case with the Acker auction. And Richard Brierley was there when Rudy consigned fake wines to Christies. And Spectrum’s specialists rejected so much wine, and what they accepted has been rejected by so any experts, including Don and his associates, C & B in London, DRC and Vogue. And frankly, they lost any willingness I had to give them the benefit of the doubt when they put out that statement that Rudy was not the consignor… failing to address whether Rudy’s wines were consigned by Rudy’s agent was beyond anything I can accept.

Kevin, I’m not trying to bust your chops, and I too have a direct interest in the health, security, and tranparency of the auction market. I just think Spectrum and Richard Brierley are bad acters in this deal, and I don’t want anything to do with them. There are much better auction channels than Spectrum. These guys could knock on my door offering '61 Palmer and I wouldn’t drink it, I can’t be bought that cheaply.

This thread has been eye opening and kudos to Don for all the work he put into this. I think it all boils down to GREED and as we can see the fine wine world is affected by it too… Fascinating and disturbing at the same time.

I pretty much agree with this.

It is the only meaningful way that the informed consumer can really send a clear message that this simple isn’t good enough…

Surely by now thousands of wine lovers by now have read this and other threads and stories, and the word will continue to spread. The potential impact on Spectrum’s business could be enormous, and perhaps then others may also take heed.

Sometimes you have to make a stand…

Well, as I recall, on one page of the catalog there was a Ponsot bottle from the 1930s listed for sale and later in the catalog there was a history of the estate that explained that they hadn’t bought that particular vineyard until decades later.

Lewis,

I think the Palmer tasting was more a dig at me… neener

I do think however that assuming that a thread like this will change the world and damage Spectrum is placing too much power in our hands.

For a start, 90% of the wine trade, do not read wine bulletin boards, I know because I am constantly telling people to join, they will learn a lot and through OL taste some very cool wines if not always so extravagant and will learn a huge amount. Of those I tell, maybe 2-5% join and of that 1% post and feature regularly.

If somehow more and more joined from both in and out of the trade, word of this would have spread no end.

For all the talk, of those who buy DRCs, how many really care about what is in the bottle? 2-3%? How many just want a pretty label? 97-98%? So take C&Bs customer base, how many will look at their notice… Think “I don’t buy that stuff” and never take a blind bit of notice. Pretty much their entire customer base, because of the DRC goes to the trade who sell it on in various ways, some of which I find unscrupulous and the same with Coche, but that is another story for another time.

We as a community are large, but we are large amongst a tiny proportion of even the wine drinking community and that is a tiny proportion of the population at large… We are “wine geeks” and anyone who reads or posts here is a “wine geek” and we are in a huge minority. Most people lurk once to read about something we never talk about and leave… They didn’t get their “two buck chuck info”. Those who stay are “wine geeks”.

This makes it sound bad, but it isn’t some of the greatest people I know are wine geeks.

So how do we change the situation? And remember, only 10% of the trade are real wine geeks. The rest are usually failed bankers or people who couldn’t find a graduate job and could join wine… Of those ITB on this board, congrats, you are part of this fabled 10% (figures are guesstimates), be proud, you can start the change!

First, education, we as a community need to stop bickering about details amongst ourselves but get out and educate people. My new job although in a winebar/merchant is to do just this, to talk to people and show them that there is a better way and it is affordable… To discuss and get them to think about wine and come back for more, to show them that there is art and beauty in a wine and it isn’t just an alcoholic beverage. Few ITB do this, if more did, then we would move away from label hunting… On top of this, teaching about beauty will also lead to an appreciation of why the beauty didn’t appear … What was wrong? Why? And this leads to an understanding of bottle issues including fakes… This leads to careful inspection of any bottle big or small, in order to preserve that beauty and only then will companies like Spectrum and elsewhere be stopped from selling fakes without thorough checks. Then, we can let people decide what and from where they buy… So no DRC, Burgundy or big boys, only a few $hundred commission on the Palmers and the business will go down slowly.

By assuming that we are going to move the world and wondering why there is no outrage is completely missing the point. Most people don’t care… If Don and friends in the UK hadn’t contacted the players directly, then nobody would have taken a blind bit of notice of this thread other than us “wine geeks” and how many people have read it and gone, “wow but nothing to do with me” ?? Plenty I would say… Then we had lots of smoke and mirrors, some withdrawals, and an auction where fakes ended up being sold… No different from most auctions except for the hullabaloo about who consigned and these fakes would have all been sold if it wasn’t for the leak of a few names to a few in the know, correct? Most don’t care and the world will move on and we will see Spectrum again… Most people in the trade don’t care because they are not about beauty but sales figures.

We need to get out and show people from all walks of life the beauty of wine, and then things will start to change… Chatting over the interwebs will solve nothing.

I stand by my decision to buy what I bought and I don’t have a guilty conscious. I bought them at a price from a seller through the medium of an auction (a broker effectively) that happened to be Spectrum because I got word of the true origins and I wasn’t going to find the wines in those quantities anywhere for less… That was my decision and should have no bearing on the issues surrounding the DRCs, Vogues, etc.

If we educate buyers and drinkers to look for beauty and become wine geeks, then they will research all this themselves and take the stand to the auction floor… Then we will see change; it will be slow and painful and probably not in our lifetimes but remember as long as there are wine geeks, there is hope.

I will not post in this thread anymore but I will be using it for future reference.

Laugh, tear it to shreds, say I’m living in the clouds, that I am just as bad as the rest of them, so on and so on, do as you please with this, but these are my beliefs and ideals based on rational thought.

Jono

I think you’d be surprised at how many member of the trade read these boards, even if they don’t post. Certainly most of the people I speak to in the trade are aware of this auction.

PS the vast majority of DRC from Corneys goes to private customers. I don’t know many people in the trade that get any.

I’m sure a few people also read Jancis (and some of the others) that have referenced this thread as well…

I think you would also be surprised at how many in the trade dont.

I was at a dinner with a number of sommeliers, and trade people on the Monday before. Of all 20-30 people not one, knew of the auction or the issues. Those who do look are those “wine geeks” in the trade, and they are a minority, and we know them because we are one of them, so it blurs our vision.

Half of those who viewed this thread were probably navigated to it by Tom’s thread on UK Wine Pages Forum, again, a collection of the minority wine geeks.

I’m not saying that lots dont and that this isn’t important, just that we as a community forget sometimes that we are in the minority.

The only people I know with DRC allocations are trade or connected with the trade and thus have access through that…

And I’ve broken my rule, oh well… Clearly the point of my post has been completely missed… :rolleyes:

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Has it been mentioned somewhere that this whole story is in the Wallstreet Journal (Europe) today ? Full mention
of Don and of wineberserkers.com. Will be interesting to see if this has an effect on traffic on the site.

Congratulations Don (and Berserkers)!!!

Indeed, but it is about an auction that has passed… For publicity, it should have been written over a week ago!! Then it may have made a difference…

Jono, I’m sure there are people who did not read about or hear about the issues, so they didn’t know. But you knew.

Well, not really correct. That catalog is linked in this thread, and I read it again just a few days ago. The Ponsot history explains that the domaine was the first to estate bottle wine, from 1934. And there was a bottle offered from before that, 1929 Clos de la Roche with a Nicolas label, and no claim to be estate bottled that I can see. The real issue was that bottles of Clos Saint-Denis were offered from the period before the domaine had this wine. So one can say Acker should have known this, but one cannot say Acker did know this but elected to conceal that.

BTW, I’m really surprised by the statement that Ponsot was “the first producer in Burgundy (1934) to estate bottle his wines.” Could this be correct?

I think we need to give Jono a break … he was just taking advantage of an opportunity. I might have done the same.

Here’s the Wall Street Journal article: