RUDY KURNIAWAN & GLOBAL WINE AUCTION FRAUD THREAD (MERGED)

[Maureen_Downey]

@Howard Cooper

This information is not that hard to obtain, is it? If Acker is auctioning this wine, shouldn’t their license be revoked and/or people from the company indicted?

You mean like how Acker had in their auction catalogue about Ponsot production info & dates, and the counterfeits on the opposite page, and Ponsot called & told them the wine was counterfeit, but Laurent Ponsot still had to show up at the auction to stop the sale of the bottles?
Like that?

The only way to put crooks out of business is for consumers to be outraged and to stop giving them your business.

And still plenty of people do business with, and make excuses for those that have defrauded wine markets, even those that have been caught & outed and have zero excuse but the fact that they lied and intended to defraud, and in most cases are laughing all the way to the bank.

If John Fox got out tomorrow, and started offering wine cheaper than his competitors - I am confident plenty of people, including folks on this board, would find a way to substantiate purchasing from him.

[Don_Cornwell]

@Bruce Leiser_owitz

Don–I’m not an expert in old Burgundy, and I don’t play one on TV. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen any Burgundy label that looks like that (at least, not a legitimate one)–with an orange background and “Caves Maxim’s De Paris.” Have you?

Bruce

Bruce:

I have seen one such Caves Maxim’s De Paris label “in the wild” but I’m pretty sure that it was a Rudy Kurniawan counterfeit.

I would add that with purported very old wines generally Rudy would do some distressing and/or artificial aging of these labels with dirt, tea or various substances before selling them. This was done so that they seemed more plausible,. But this wasn’t always the case. As you may recall from my initial comments in this thread about the wines in the Spectrum/Vanquish auction, one of the problems with several of the wines was that some very old wines had incredibly pristine and new looking labels and unbelievably good fill levels for very old wines. This was a frequent feature of Rudy’s consignments.

[Jay_Miller]

@PeterH

That’s one reason I read this thread even though I have no stake in the matter. Best laugh all week.

P Hickner

Ditto

[Mark_Golodetz]

@Jay Miller

@PeterH

That’s one reason I read this thread even though I have no stake in the matter. Best laugh all week.

P Hickner

Ditto

All month. Brilliant.

[Khiem_Le]

CORRECTION – The 1984 Mugnier Musigny is real !

Something bugged me : why would anyone fake 1984’s, an average or even mediocre vintage ?

So I went back and re-read my notes.

Frédéric Mugnier came back to the domaine in time for the 1985 harvest. So 1985 is his first vintage as a winemaker.

However, the 1984’s which were vinified by Bernard Clair were sill going through the élevage process in the cellar and had not been sold to the négoce. And Frédéric did bottle the 1984’s put his name on the label. So 1984 is the first vintage with his name on the label !

My sincere apologies for the mix-up.

Khiem

[ClarkstonMark]

@Khiem Le

CORRECTION – The 1984 Mugnier Musigny is real !

Something bugged me : why would anyone fake 1984’s, an average or even mediocre vintage ?

So I went back and re-read my notes.

Frédéric Mugnier came back to the domaine in time for the 1985 harvest. So 1985 is his first vintage as a winemaker.

However, the 1984’s which were vinified by Bruno Clair were sill going through the élevage process in the cellar and had not been sold to the négoce. And Frédéric did bottle the 1984’s put his name on the label. So 1984 is the first vintage with his name on the label !

My sincere apologies for the mix-up.

Khiem

Khiem, Well maybe he bottled 83’s as well?

[Eric_LeVine]

@brigcampbell

It’d also be interesting to know which user actually created the bogus vintages in CT. Doesn’t mean they’re anything other than a victim. Only Eric knows who creates a new wine/vintage.

But if there’s a user that’s creating lots of bogus wines in CT then that could be a counterfeiter…

There are plenty of victims on CT.

[Khiem_Le]

Mark,

Frédéric Mugnier specifically stated that the first vintage he started bottling was 1984.

(I just got confused between his first vinification 1985, and his first bottling, 1984.)

Khiem

[Jorge_Henriquez]

And VOILA!

iSofwsW0Hf8

This looks awesome!!

[David_K_o_l_i_n]

No US release pending. We should see if we can get a screening for the next Berserkerfest

[Jorge_Henriquez]

@David K o l i n

No US release pending. We should see if we can get a screening for the next Berserkerfest

Mel Hill said it should be on Netflix in about 2 months.

[billnanson]

@Khiem Le

CORRECTION – The 1984 Mugnier Musigny is real !

Nope - the 1984 Musigny could be real

People fake $10 Pouilly-Fuissé - though admittedly in larger quantities…

[Mel_Hill]

@Jorge Henriquez

@David K o l i n

No US release pending. We should see if we can get a screening for the next Berserkerfest

Mel Hill said it should be on Netflix in about 2 months.

That’s the word from one of the producers I provided photos to for this doc.

[ToddFrench]

@David K o l i n

No US release pending. We should see if we can get a screening for the next Berserkerfest

YES!! We should have a BerserkerFest FOR the screening…perhaps several around the country? How can we get an exact release date?

[ToddFrench]

Folks, the film comes out on Nov 19th on Netflix, and thanks to Maureen and Mel’s introductions, we’re working with the filmmaker and distributor of the film to PERHAPS get some advanced screenings going for WBers

[David_K_o_l_i_n]

@Todd F r e n c h

Folks, the film comes out on Nov 19th on Netflix, and thanks to Maureen and Mel’s introductions, we’re working with the filmmaker and distributor of the film to PERHAPS get some advanced screenings going for WBers

SO BOMB! Great luck

[Dennis_Borczon]

@David K o l i n

No US release pending. We should see if we can get a screening for the next Berserkerfest

oh come on!! this is the only move I am motivated to see this fall. Why no US release??? I would pay for this on Netflix tonight

[Peter_Kleban]

@Todd F r e n c h

Folks, the film comes out on Nov 19th on Netflix, and thanks to Maureen and Mel’s introductions, we’re working with the filmmaker and distributor of the film to PERHAPS get some advanced screenings going for WBers

Cool! Will a WB lapel pin be required for entry?

[ToddFrench]

@Peter Kleban

Cool! Will a WB lapel pin be required for entry?

YES!!!

[Phil_David]

Went to see Sour Grapes this evening. Perhaps a little hard to follow if you don’t know any of the story already. It’s very focused on Rudy without much in the way of background; there’s no mention of Hardy Rodenstock, for instance, even when Bill Koch displays his TJ bottles. But very watchable. There’s one big revelation I’ve only heard alluded to in very oblique terms before, but I won’t give it away here. Jef Levy did a terrific job of making a complete arse of himself and Rudy’s lawyer Jerry Mooney is a real comedian, though I suspect an unknowing one.