Riedel Wine Glass Comparative Workshop

WINE TALK
1

My wife and kids and I went on a cruise last week and did a Riedel Wine Glass Comparative Workshop while on board. http://www.celebritycruises.com/onboard/tabLanding.do?pagename=onboard_beverage_packages&tab=onboard_beverage_packages_riedel_wine_tab I was really amazed at how much different the wines tasted in different glasses. I had always heard about this seminar and was sceptical (even though I have Vinum Bordeaux and Burgundy glasses), but I became a believer. More importantly, so did my wife, so I may be able to buy more glasses. [dance-clap.gif]

For example, we had a Freemark Abbey Cabernet. In the Burgundy glass, the wine was quite tannic. In the Montrachet glass, the wine did not show tannin, but did show lots of acid. In the “joker” glass, the wine showed some fruit, but was flabby and showed little structure. In the Bordeaux glass, the pieces came together and the wine showed balance.

Has anyone else done one of these.

2

I haven’t done such a tasting, but would be interested in one.

Please do tell, what is the “joker” glass?

3

I attended one of these about 15 years ago in Santa Fe. I was already an owner/fan of the Vinum Bdx glasses and figured that was all I needed. I arrived firmly cynical, convinced it was marketing BS designed to separate me and my money. I departed as a believer buying a box of each later that week. I don’t remember the specifics but the ones that stick in my mind are the White Burg and Savignon Blanc glasses. What a difference with wine in the glass designed for it. Amazing. Connie and I regularly pour the same wine in to different glasses just to see what happens. The Riedels are frequently right on the money with the wine they are designed for. Now if they were still $8-10 per stem…

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4

Sorry, but I remain skeptical on this. There is no way to really do a proper study on it, i.e. the user is not blind to the glasses being used. Add to this the usual hype thrown about by the persons running the thing, and it gets murkier still. I do believe that glasses make a difference, but only to a point. And you cannot convince me that a wine will be more or less tannic in different glasses. Again, I think glasses are important, but not as much as their manufacturers want us to think.

5

I’ve done the tasting as well, and was equally as amazed. Normally I’d agree with your issue regarding whether or not it was a proper test, but I came to the tasting feeling the way you do (that glasses matter but only to a point) and was convinced otherwise. Given that the results contradicted my original belief, I think there was some real data obtained.

6

It’s one of those tiny, thick rimmed Libby wine glasses - basically the glass you’d expect to get wines served in at Denny’s [cheers.gif]

7

It is a relatively small wine glass with more of a rounded edge, you know the kind you get at many restaurants and at friend’s houses that are not into wine. Obviously, we all know that the size of the glass has some importance if you want to smell the wine, but the rounded edge (vs. a more cut edge on a better glass) is also apparantly detrimental in tasting the wine.

8

Try the seminar.

9

I’m not all that skeptical that the same wine can taste and smell different in different glasses…just a bit skeptical from a variety of tries that there is a “best” that is consistent across the category that the glass is meant to be used for… for instance, most of the time I’d rather drink white burgs out of a red burg Riedel than a white wine Riedel and I’ve never been particularly thrilled with the vinum syrah glasses and I often like glasses shaped more like the Riedel Burg Somm for them … I think that the difference in taste is primarily the initial taste because of where the glass directs the wine in your mouth and on your tongue but somehow I’ve noticed that that can frame/adjust the perception of tannins and alcohol.

Tough to run a “blind” test but a number of years back I tried on my wife (she sold wine for 18yrs and has a great palate though she doesn’t drink much) - I poured the same wine from the same bottle into two different glasses, a Vinum Burg and Vinum Bordeaux and had them on the table - she got home as I was 1/2 way through dinner and I asked her to try them trying to make it seem like I was drinking two different wines side by side - after the first try, she thought they were different (liked the one in the burg glass much more) but likely the same varietal and maybe related but from different vintages - after a few more tries she was convinced they were the same varietal and producer but still had a preference for the one in the Burg glass - after a bit longer she was more and more convinced that they were basically the same and but for her preference for one, would have said they were the same (ultimately guessed same wine but different vintages as “final answer”). The wine was a 6yr old Turley zin drinking very well and as it turned out, I preferred it from the Bordeaux glass and she preferred it from the Burg glass…so much for coming to a meaningful conclusion from the test.

10

Another case of different strokes. [wow.gif] The Vinum Syrah and Red Burg are the only two I’d spend money on in 2012. Have you tried the Oregon PN glass? It is shaped somewhat like the Somm Red Burg glass. I will try some syrah in one soon. I’m afraid to be in the same room with the Somms let alone actually use them. Too fragile for me. I’m pretty skilled at breaking just about anything. [berserker.gif]

11

I want to do some experimentation. We tasted the Chardonnay (a Wente Chardonnay) in the Montrachet glass, the Sauvignon Blanc glass and the Joker glass, but not in the Burgundy glass (it had a NZ pinot in it when we tasted the Chardonnay). When I get the glasses (the price of the seminar included a set of glasses I am having shipped to me), I want to do some experimentation. For example, would a Chablis be better in the Montrachet glass (which I think is really for bigger Chardonnays), the Sauvignon Blanc glass, the Burgundy glass or maybe even my simpler Overture glasses. I am probably going to play around with this some when I get my sets to see what I like best from what. But, I look at this as fun, not as a chore.

12

I did this seminar here in Portland at Liner & Elsen a few years ago, hosted by Georg Riedel. It was good fun, and an excellent value for a couple of good glasses. But he spent a lot of time talking about the thoroughly discredited taste-zone theory, and a lot of working the crowd to suggest the outcome he wanted, and I left with the same skepticism about having a different glass for every wine that I arrived with.

I’d totally go again anyway. It was entertaining.

13

I’ve seen the seminar twice, and i gotta agree that Georg is incredibly entertaining. There is no doubt that glass shape and size does affect both the aromas of the wines and where the wine gets placed in your mouth, thus affecting how it tastes initially as well. It was clear during the tasting that certain wines simply smelled and tasted better in one glass than another. If you have not been - or even tried this yourself with friends and different glasses - I suggest you do so . . … it is illuminating.

That said, I’m not sure it’s justifiable to get 10 different sets of glasses for 10 different types of wines. There are some ‘utilitarian’ shapes that seem to work well enough to keep with for most of the wines . . . even knowing that the wine may smell and taste a bit better out of a different glass.

As with all things subjective, YMMV . . .

Cheers!

14

I also did this seminar many years ago. It is startling the difference. I also agree I’m not crazy about the Vinum white burgundy glass. I’m looking for a replacement.

15

My experience tells me that glass shape can influence the nose a bit, but not the taste. I suspect there are a couple things at play in these seminars: power of suggestion is one, but more importantly, how long do they give you between tastes of wines in the different glasses? If you taste a tannic wine 30 seconds after the first taste, of course it will taste differently.

The notion that the tongue has different sensations to different tastes in different areas is just flat out wrong, that is well known. And in the end, it doesn’t matter what shape the glass is, the liquid still has to pour out of circular hole at the end, which is the same for every glass :wink:

16

Did the tasting with him and even own a number of different Reidel glasses so that I can do the tasting any time I want.

Every time I do it I genuflect before the brilliance of the Riedel marketing.

17

I did a tasting at the SFMOMA last year with Maximillian and it was an utterly eye opening experience. Not to mention, we walked out of the seminar with a 3-pack of stemware that was well worth the nominal price of admission.

All in all, we tasted 3 wines (Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot, Cab from Mondavi) out of 5 glasses: Joker 1 - plastic party cup, Sommeliers Chard glass, Sommeliers Burg Grand Cru glass, Sommeliers Bordeaux glass, Joker 2 - the ‘universal wine tasting of France’ glass. Exploring the aromatics of each of the wines, the initial taste on the palate and final mouthfeel from each of the glasses/cups with each of the wines gave an incredible appreciation of the proper shaped glass for each wine varietal. Its tough to discredit the right glass for the right wine after you experience this. However, brand wise, I don’t have enough experience at that level to say one way or another.

Per some of the other comments, I too wouldn’t run out to the store to buy 10 different wine stems for 10 different varietals of wine - but I certainly appreciate that drinking a nice Pinot/Burg out of the Sommeliers Grand Cru Burgundy is much better then drinking it from any of the other 4 mentioned above.

18

the initial taste on the palate and > final mouthfeel > from each of the glasses/cups with each of the wines gave an incredible appreciation of the proper shaped glass for each wine varietal

The texture, or physical sensation of the wine, is affected by the glass when the wine is no longer in the glass but is in your mouth? That’s one of my problems. In addition, for that to happen presupposes that the glass is made for the variety, and is experienced identically by people with huge physical differences. It also ignores variations due to terroir. And what about blends?

Riedel has Apple beat all to hell when it comes to marketing. The only company that does it better is Harley-Davidson. When you get your customers to tattoo your name on their bodies, you’re in a class apart. I just saw Mr Riedel last week and saw no tattoo. I’m thinking that next time he’s sporting one! [cheers.gif]

19

GregT - very good points and I’m sure the marketing machine is running at full tilt.

One question though - do you find that if you drink the same wine (at relatively the same time) from a plastic cup (or even ill shaped wine glass, say a champagne flute) versus a more aptly shaped glass for the varietal, that you don’t discern a difference in how the wine presents itself in the mouth?

I’m an Apple guy for the record. Nothing against Android on the mobile side. Can’t stand Windows FWIW.

20

I for one am a believer that it makes a huge difference how the wine is presented to your nose and mouth, and subtle differences in glasses can make a big difference. %80 or more of the appreciation or flavor or taste or whatever you want to call it of a wine is aromatics sensed by your nose, either from the front or up the back of your nasal passages, so how the aromatics are presented by the glass makes ahuge difference, as well as how the wine is thrown into your mouth by the glass. The mouth part is just textures and basic sensations (sour, bitter, etc)

I’d be interested in how many who are poo-pooing the glass thing have actually tried the comparative tastings.