Grape radio has a podcast of a riedel tasting. Half the time ridedel is telling you what you are supposed to be experiencing and how their “research” yielded the perfect glass. There are various reasons why participants walk away adamant believers.
The glass shape does affect aromatic intensity for me, but taste and texture much less so. I have drunk the same wines out of various stems including the ones given in a riedel seminar (my friend went and afterwards gave me the XL Bordeaux and burg stems).
I did one of the glass comparisons back in the late 1980s/early 1990s and was convinced that different glasses yield different results, but not that it is possible to reliably predict which wine will go best in which glass.
I also thought that almost any well-made glass would do a good job. But what a surprise tonight. Last night, I was drinking a Champagne out of a Spiegelau glass (some type for white wine – I’m not looking up the exact line right now) and it seemed harsh, overly acidic, and out of balance. Tonight the same wine from a Schott-Zwiesel white wine glass (again, not looking up the exact line) was balanced and very pleasant. Went back to the Spiegelau glass and same results as yesterday. Switched to a Riedel vinum red Burgundy and very pleasing, similar to the Schott-Zwiesel.
I still say you can’t reliably predict which glass is optimal for which wine, but certainly the differences can be significantly greater than I had previously thought.
Re chardonnay, the best glass for the variety is the Vinum Extreme Chardonnay glass.
BTW, the effect on a wine’s aroma is as important is the flavour ‘perception’. Try Pinot in a Chardonnay glass and the aroma will go missing when compared to the same wine in a Burgundy stem.
All I can say is that I’ve used Riedel glasses for many years and have enjoyed them very much, but got a set of Zalto Bordeaux glasses for Christmas and wow! They are truly amazing and I haven’t picked up a Riedel since (and I have quite a few of them). If you like glasses, you owe it to yourself to try out the Zaltos.
I feel like the aroma goes missing in the Chard. glass, below, regardless of the wine within; I absolutely hate this stem and all others of similar design:
I too was a sceptic until I took the class years ago on a cruise. I thought it would be fun to see the dog and pony show they were planning. I always bought the idea of surface area in bowl shape affecting aroma, but at the demo, i was surprised how rim shape affected taste in very clear ways.
My wife and I did the same tasting at a wine shop about a year ago. It made a believer out of my wife as I no longer get the hey you dumb@ss talk when I pack stems for vacation or dinner if we are haveing some nice wines.
I don’t agree with the 10 different glasses for 10 different wines though.
For me the big key with any glass is the thin rim and big bowl.
Late last week I got the stems from the tasting delivered to me. So, Saturday I did two experiments with a friend and my wife. We used four glasses for two wines. The four glasses (all from Riedel) were an Overture red wine glass, the Vinum Montrachet glass, the Vinum Sauvignon Blanc glass and the Vinum Burgundy glass.
The first wine we tried was a 2002 Dauvissat Chablis les Sechet. I wanted to try a lighter bodied Chardonnay, thinking it could do better in the Sauvignon Blanc glass than the Montrachet glass. Well, the Sauvignon Blanc glass was by far the worst of the three. I have no idea why but the wine tasted better in the Overture red wine glass than in the SB glass. If you look at the two glasses, the bowls are almost identical. I have no idea why the difference. The wine was only slightly better in the Montrachet glass than in the Overture glass, if that, and was as good in the Burg glass as in the Montrachet glass.
The second wine was a 2005 Pavelot Savigny les Beaune which had been opened the night before. This wine was clearly best in the Burg stem, nothing else came close.
My bet’s on the Overture or S.B. glass for this one. I will be ab-so-lute-ly floored if the Montrachet glass isn’t the worst one in this instance. (I am assuming an off-dry Riesling, btw).
If you have any, I suggest throwing a Vinum Zinfandel glass into the Riesling tasting: of the glasses I have, it’s my preferred choice for off-dry Riesling.
The glass shown in Brian’s post (post #26) is the Montrachet glass not the Chardonnay glass. The chardonnay glass is similar to the Sauvignon Blanc glass in that the bowl is less round.
FWIW, I was introduced to these glasses by a wine shop owner in Studio City, California in the early 1980’s and was as skeptical as one could be. (Shop always had open bottles in the office for impromptu tastes to those known to the owners.) I walked out shaking my head thinking what a scam, what a gimmick.
Years later after attending a seminar I began buying the Vinums and own the Bordeaux, Burgundy, Syrah, Montrachet, Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Zinfandel and two different Rieslings plus a flute for Champagnes. I use the Montrachet for older chardonnays, the Chardonnay glass for newer (usually) California chards.
I am convinced, now, that the glass does make a difference. Do I wish that they didn’t break so easily ? Sure. Call me a sucker if you must and I won’t argue with you; they’re a personal luxury/indulgence.
I have done this workshop before as well. There is definitely a difference among stems and for the price of seminar you get three glasses that would cost more than the seminar if you bought them retail. I have since broken each one of them , good story for each. I did enjoy the Bordeaux stem for drinking younger Bdx, it seemed to coax aromas that were missing even in standard Bdx/Cab glassware.
What is the difference between the Montrachet and Chardonnay glasses in terms of what they are supposed to be used for, both in terms of how Riedel thinks one should use them and in terms of how you actually use them.
I don’t use the Montrachet that often and more often than not I end up pouring into it and the regular chardonnay glass to try to figure the glass out.
Riedel only says that the Montrachet glass might be preferred for wine with an oak characteristic. At least that’s what I get reading their information. While others specifically object to oakiness I note it and deal with it unless it is truly excessive. My earliest California white wine experiences were with those 80’s wines that were all about malolactic and oak. Today’s California whites are, imo, much more interesting.
My second test of four glasses came this past weekend when my daughter came home for the weekend. We had a Buisson-Charles 2005 Meursault Tessons in four glass, the Vinum Montrachet glass, the Vinum red Burgundy glass, the Vinum Sauvignon Blanc glass and the Overture red wine glass.
The wine was an excellent Meursault, but was very restrained, a bit tight and still a few years too young. Really intracate wine that is just my style of white Burgundy and a reason I am a big fan of Buisson-Charles’ wines.
For some reason, the wine tasted worst in the SB glass. I still don’t understand why these wines smell and taste better in the Overture glass than the SB glass as the bowls look exactly alike. I found less difference here than when tasting the Chablis between the glasses. That could be because the wine was a bit too cold, although it warmed up and opened up over time. Again there was a jump between tasting out of the Overture glass to drinking out of the Montrachet and Burgundy glasses, although as I said not as much as with the Chablis. I did not find that much difference again between drinking the wine in the Montrachet glass and the Burgundy glass, although my wife thought it was a bit better in the Montrachet glass. These two wines did not convince me to buy more Montrachet glasses, although I am convinced that I should be using the Burgundy glass for better Chardonnays and not just use the Overture glass that I put in the dishwasher.
My wife prefers the Vinum Extreme Chard glass (I suspect it is driven more by the capacity than the difference in taste, but she does have a dang good palate, so I am not complaining).
Howard, Riedel lists the Vinum Zin Glass for “Zinfandel, Chianti, Riesling Grand Cru”, so definitely use the Zin glass in your testing.
One of my favorite experiments is to have aspiring afficianados (but with no experience in Riedel to try the same wine in 4 or 5 Riedel Vinum varietal glasses (yes I have Vinum Syrah, Bordeaux, PN, Zin, Chard, and Extreme Chard) and an INAO tasting glass to see which they prefer (not necessarily which is better). As I recall they pick the “correct” glass about 75% of the time, but they all discern differences and are pretty good at describing the subtleties.
Truly an indulgence on my part, but they do make a difference in my personal pleasure (though I occasionally pour bubbly into the PN glass [after having read another thread on the issue]).
Thanks, but I don’t have the Zin glass. I have a whole bunch of the Vinum Burgundy glass, the Vinum Bordeaux glass and the Overture red wine glass and three each of the Montrachet glass and the Sauvignon Blanc glass. Then I have a whole bunch of assorted non-Riedel glasses that I have picked up over the years.
Bill, I’m curious what you think of that Riedel Tasting Glass. I’ve got those, too, and I do use them though I often wonder how exactly an impression from a taste in that glass might correlate to later consumption from the “proper” glass.
Only benefit I can think of is that it allows for the small pours at tastings.
I did the Riedel seminar with Georg 20 years ago in San Francisco, and it was an eye-opener. And I’ve served the same wine out of different glasses to non-believers on many occasions.
I come out where a lot of you do:
The glass makes a huge difference.
The lip makes a surprising amount of difference.
But I don’t buy the Reidel line that you should have a separate set of glasses for every wine type. When I attended his show, I was struck by how little difference there was between the Reidels and the much cheaper but decent line of glasses that were included in the test. They were both miles better than the clunky Libby glasses.
Personally, I use a 20 oz. Bordeaux glass for most reds. It can be Spiegelau, Oberglass or whatever. Sometimes I use the Vinum Burgundy glasses. I’m still looking for white glasses I really like.
, good story for each. I did enjoy the Bordeaux stem for drinking younger Bdx, it seemed to coax aromas that were missing even in standard Bdx/Cab glassware.