Poll: What is your favorite Red Burgundy Vintage 2000->2009

[CFu]

@Berry Crawford

@Charlie Fu

@Berry Crawford

clearly

I can’t wait to taste some 09 Fourrier. London shipment, where art thou!?

I hear they are great. I havn’t bought any yet though. I had an option to get some from the UK but passed. Not very smart of me as 2009 Fourrier prices are silly here.

your source is probably where I got mine. Someone took all the CSJ =(

[Berry_Crawford]

The CSJ was a good deal if I remember

[Peter_Chiu]

@Mark Gough

First time I’ve logged on here in ages. Am simply not prepared to vote on this thread as imho simply way too soon for me personally to vote, nor do I believe I’ve sampled enough wines at all levels to provide an informed opinion - good grief am still in recent times drinking 97’s & 98’s ! Went to a tasting a few weeks ago with several stonking 30 yr old ish red burgs (Rousseau, D’Angerville et al) which has since had my mind totally recalibrating red burgundy, how long to keep, when is optimum drinking etc etc

With respect to Berry though I do agree with the content of all his posts re 2008 which, for me, is irrestible drinking currently on those wines I’ve tried, both red and white - pure delights. I know of, and understand, Thom’s keenness on the 2001’s and am v happy to have those I have in my cellar with no rush to open too soon.

I’m gobsmacked at opinion on the 2005’s to be honest, not because I don’t think its a probable great vintage (I do probably / for sure) but because I’m amazed folk can have such an informed vote as ‘favourite’ - good heavens, for me, even the 2005 Bourgogne Rouges are, in many cases, shut down hard or just starting to ease up. Flame me if you like but do I infer some folk are reflecting what they ‘think’ they should vote for or what is ‘best’ ? If those 2005 voters are doing so because they are drinking / have drunk the wines then I’m completely ‘lost’ for words !

2009 ? Who knows ? Way too soon again to say but to be even more ‘mischievous’, sorry (!), will going forward, be it that 2010 is the ‘love of our lives’ - with several burgundian vigneron friends and the ‘experts’ / journos suggesting it is 2008++ ?

All part of the magic that is…

Mark…I voted for 2005.

I am not looking for any argument but may I tell you why ?

There are many ways to enjoy Burugndy wines. Here is my way : I treat my Burugndy wines as if they were my children. I would like to see them how they will grow up by checking on them at release, and then visit them as often as I could. For example :

(1) Faiveley - Mercurey - Les Mauvarennes 05 (864-629 $22) 99-52=47 8.6.11
(2) Faiveley - Mercurey-Les Framboise 05 (1052-1029 $27.50) 70-27=43 8.11.11
(3) C. Audoin-Marsannay-La Charme aux Prêtres 05 (1119-8745 $37.50) 97-2=95 14.8.11

…but because I’m amazed folk can have such an informed vote as ‘favourite’ - good heavens, for me, even the 2005 Bourgogne Rouges are, in many cases, shut down hard or just starting to ease up…

Yes…you are right - some wines in 2005 are shut down - hence …I only drunk 2 bs of C. Audoin bceause the wine was made with 100% whole cluster ferment. Here is what Meadows said about the Marsannay “La Charme aux Prêtres” of 2009 ( repeat of vintage 2009 ). Please note that Meadows only started to review C, Audoin wines since vintage 2007.


2009 Marsannay “La Charme aux Prêtres”: (a limited production wine of around 600 bottles annually made with a 100% whole cluster ferment). An intensely floral and elegant nose of primarily red berry fruit aromas is followed by rich, serious and very precise middle weight flavors that are at once firmly structured and moderately austere on the hugely long finish. This is not as fine as the best in the range but the aging potential is superb. Note that this character that presently evidences ample stem tannins will not be a style that appeals to everyone so I would recommend it only for those who intend to cellar the wine for the long-term. (91-93)/2019+


Edited to add the following explanation :

Faiveley - Mercurey-Les Framboise 05 (1052-1029 $27.50) 70-27=43 8.11.11

Note 1 : the number - 1052-1029 $27.50 = the product code & the price;
Note 2 : 70-27=43 means I bought a total of 72 bottles, drank 27 bottles already and still have 43 bottls left; and
Note 3 : 8.11.11 = 8 November 2011last date which I drunk this wine.

[Josh_Najjar]

I just took the first bottles of '02s out of my cellar and I’m very happy indeed.

[paul_hanna]

@Mark Gough

I’m gobsmacked at opinion on the 2005’s to be honest, not because I don’t think its a probable great vintage (I do probably / for sure) but because I’m amazed folk can have such an informed vote as ‘favourite’ - good heavens, for me, even the 2005 Bourgogne Rouges are, in many cases, shut down hard or just starting to ease up. Flame me if you like but do I infer some folk are reflecting what they ‘think’ they should vote for or what is ‘best’ ? If those 2005 voters are doing so because they are drinking / have drunk the wines then I’m completely ‘lost’ for words !

I see a fair bit of '05, and usually in a lineup of vintages of the same producer/same or similar wine (at a high GC level). Often this is say '99 to '08 now…This then gives quite a good basis for vintage comparisons.

So here are my comments based on this above premise:

All I can say is that '05 stands out every time (usually with '99 if it is included) as the top wines in the field, closed or no, and often by a long margin. Universally great wines pretty much every time, and even when showing somewhat closed (surprisingly they don’t always look closed) there is no denying their ultimate class. The scary thing is these will still get so much better.

The '06’s often stand out as the more seductive/attractive wines in a lighter red fruit sort of way, and have generally looked very good young (although no doubt as I said before, many looked a bit better a year of more ago).

Recent tastings have shown the '08’s look to be well placed to be in the top few vintages, and I think this will show out more as these wines age and improve even more.

I can see that the sexy/seductiveness of the '09’s (and certainly of the ones who got it right/or the wines from the right areas) will be right amongst the top picks for years to come because of their very nature…problem will be the slight uneven quality across the wines and regions. We will know about these the more we see them…

Consequently the '04’s and '07’s will continue to get smashed in comparison the vintage around them, the '00’s always look pretty good, but ultimately just lack that touch of class and depth…whilst the '01’s are a mixed bag now, ofter either looking too young yet and with great promise still, or almost past it, depending on the wine…the '02’s usually look good, although sometimes the soft sort of ripeness of the fruit marks them down a bit now compared with other vintages.

Thus I easily picked '05. If I had the choice though, I would still put it second to '99…both now and for the future.

Just my 2c.

[Peter_Chiu]

Paul…very well said in post No. 86.

I would like to add more comments.

Many of the wines from vintage 2005 which I drunk so far…I also drunk them from other vintage years - for example : 2001, 2002 and also recently 2006. For example : many J. Germain - Beaune 1ieme cru. 2005 stands out - sepcailly for Les Cras v.v. 05 and Les Cras v.v. 06.

That being said…I did not have too many chances to buy and drink many of the same wines from vintage 2008 as many of them are not available yet in Quebec, Canada…now. But my vote goes to 2005 because the 2005 low-end reds are really outstanding ( and better ) when compare them with 2000, 2003, 2004 and 2007.

[Brady_Daniels]

@Guillaume Deschamps

I’d really like to know the rationale of the 55% of people who didn’t vote for 2005: is it because this vintage isn’t approachable yet? or because people haven’t popped any corks or have low exposure to that vintage in particular? Apart from vintages with really strong characteristics like 2003 (that usually don’t appeal so much to burg lovers), I can’t think of anything that a vintage has to offer and that 2005 doesn’t do better.

For me, because 2000-2002, 2007, 2008 offer more enjoyment today than 2005. I’m not saying they’re better, I’m just defining favorite as which vintage I prefer to drink now.

For me, that’s hands-down 2002, from which I don’t think I’ve had a bad bottle. Though if we include the previous decade, my list would change considerably.

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

So, now, we’re realizing that even “favorite” needs defining?

[Peter_Chiu]

@Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow

So, now, we’re realizing that even “favorite” needs defining?

Yes - right on. The *favourite * of to-day ( = Nov 2011 )…may not be the favourite of to-morrow ( = Nov. 2015 when 2005 will be at age 10 ).

In certain way…enjoyment ( to drink and to buy ) of Burgundy, specially for Burg-geeks, is part of our life, isn’t ?

Stuart :

To withdraw ( from buying Burugndy ) is easy;
Not to withdraw ( from buying Burgundy) is also not easy;
So, to withdraw or not to withdraw ?
For me, isn’t it just a question within one’s mind and heart !!!

So…just follow what ever is in your heart and mind.

Here is something which I had post quite often in the Other Board ( a pre-face of the famous Chinese Novel - The Tale of the Three Kingdoms ) :

The rolling water of the Yangtze River keeps flowing eastward to the sea and never return. Its crests wash away the dreams of many heros. With a turn of the head, right or wrong, success or failure, will all vanish soon. However, the green hills will always still be there; and the setting sun will light up the red sky a few more times.

A white haired fisherman sits on the bank of the river. He has seen the moon of many autumns and is used to the wind of many springs. With a bottle of wine, happily he met his old acquaintance. They talk about many things, of the past and of the presence; but all with laughters.

[Nick_Gangas]

Like I said, it’s like MVP voting in the NBA.

[Guillaume_Deschamps]

@Mark Gough

I’m gobsmacked at opinion on the 2005’s to be honest, not because I don’t think its a probable great vintage (I do probably / for sure) but because I’m amazed folk can have such an informed vote as ‘favourite’ - good heavens, for me, even the 2005 Bourgogne Rouges are, in many cases, shut down hard or just starting to ease up. Flame me if you like but do I infer some folk are reflecting what they ‘think’ they should vote for or what is ‘best’ ? If those 2005 voters are doing so because they are drinking / have drunk the wines then I’m completely ‘lost’ for words !

I’ve tasted the wine from barrels at my favorite producers (and also at some others) every vintage since 2002, therefore I’ve missed only 2 vintages during the last decade (but I’ve tried my fair share of 2000s and 2001s since they are the oldest vintages of the decade, after all, and therefore more likely to drink better than most other vintages). 2005 seemed so much better to me than any vintage I had tasted before (or after) that I really had to pick that vintage as my favorite. I open a bottle of 2005 Bourgogne recently and I can swear it’s the best wine I’ve ever bought or drunk for 12 euros.

As a side note, I’m surprised so many people interpreted “favorite” as “for current drinking”. For me it would be like asking “what’s your favorite band?” and everybody replying “while I’m in my car”. My favorite vintage between 2000-2009 is going to be the same in 10 or 20 years as it is now…

[Ian_Fitzsimmons]

@Peter Chiu

Paul…very well said in post No. 86.

I would like to add more comments.

Many of the wines from vintage 2005 which I drunk so far…I also drunk them from other vintage years - for example : 2001, 2002 and also recently 2006. For example : many J. Germain - Beaune 1ieme cru. 2005 stands out - sepcailly for Les Cras v.v. 05 and Les Cras v.v. 06.

That being said…I did not have too many chances to buy and drink many of the same wines from vintage 2008 as many of them are not available yet in Quebec, Canada…now. But my vote goes to 2005 because the 2005 low-end reds are really outstanding ( and better ) when compare them with 2000, 2003, 2004 and 2007.

Drifting … any views on Germain’s Cras vs. his Teurons?

[A_Songeur]

No brainer: 2005 looks the top vintage for all these years. But, for the time being, I only consider the 2000-2008 range since I have not tasted enough 2009s and there seems to be a lot of debate about whether it’s a top vintage or a turkey (you only need too read some condemnations (I don’t like them…) of 2009 in the 2008 versus 2009 thread…and compare them to glorious tasting notes by critics…I suppose time will tell).
I quite like drinking some 2008s at the moment but don’t know whether they have enough fruit to be great in the long term. From what I read (and tasted at one producer), it may be that 2010 is a super 2008…so 2008 may not be highly rated once the (few) 2010s hit the market.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Ian Fitzsimmons

@Peter Chiu

Paul…very well said in post No. 86.

I would like to add more comments.

Many of the wines from vintage 2005 which I drunk so far…I also drunk them from other vintage years - for example : 2001, 2002 and also recently 2006. For example : many J. Germain - Beaune 1ieme cru. 2005 stands out - sepcailly for Les Cras v.v. 05 and Les Cras v.v. 06.

That being said…I did not have too many chances to buy and drink many of the same wines from vintage 2008 as many of them are not available yet in Quebec, Canada…now. But my vote goes to 2005 because the 2005 low-end reds are really outstanding ( and better ) when compare them with 2000, 2003, 2004 and 2007.

Drifting … any views on Germain’s Cras vs. his Teurons?

Ian…befoe the creation of Tante Berthe starting in Vintage 2002, Germain made v.v. cuvee in theese 3 vineyards : ir Les Cras, Les Vigne French and Les Teurons.

After 2002 only Les Cras still keep the v.v. cuvee. I have been drinking Germain wines since vintage 1990…Les Cras is alway my go to wine, specially in excellent vintage like 2005.

In Quebec, Cannada T.Berth 05 was quite expensive :

Chateau du Chorey - Cuvée Tante Berthe 05 (10959178 $ 127)
Chateau du Chorey - Les Cras v.v 05 (1029-4292 $67)
Chateau du Chorey - Les Teurons 05 (1111-5647 $63)
Chateau du Chorey - 1ieme Cru 05 (1111-3254 $46)

[Rasoul_Salehi]

request from the moderators

can you find out who voted for 2004 and make them vanish from this board? (joking…)

but seriously 2004 and 2003 were clearly sub par.

[Tom_Blach]

Rasoul, leaving aside 04 I find the dismissal of 03 as sub par to be rather frivolous. Neither you nor I know what will happen to the wines, but to dismiss a year’s hard work like that seems unkind!

[Robert_Thornton]

2001. I’m with Maureen, a fellow Missourian, re: show me with the 2005s. I do expect them to be epic down the line, but hard to call them my favorite now. So I’m not arguing that 2001 is better than 2005, just my favorite. Maybe surprising given that I’m a big Volnay guy and all the hail (whereas the '02 and '05 Volnays are brilliant), but for almost every other commune, for any given wine, I love the '01 version as much if not more than the other vintages.

I do love many '00s for current drinking and have high hopes for '08s.

Cheers,
-Robert

[A_Songeur]

You do love the 2000s?

Well then, if you refer to Kevin’s post saying that 2009s resemble more to 2000s (with p[robably more of everything), then you may enjoy/love 2009s in the future.

[Guillaume_Deschamps]

@Tom Blach

Rasoul, leaving aside 04 I find the dismissal of 03 as sub par to be rather frivolous. Neither you nor I know what will happen to the wines, but to dismiss a year’s hard work like that seems unkind!

So everything is over par by definition? Then let’s make par the baseline, and make the average the “new par”…

[John_Gilman]

Can we add 2010 to the list That would make is a lot harder decision…