Lets look at this theory where wine dates beyond 12,000 years...

[Mark.Ricca]

[John_D_Zuccarino]

@Jonathan Loesberg

@John D. Zuccarino

@Jonathan Loesberg

I’m not sure if this is supposed to be taken seriously, but anatomically modern human beings only appeared around 200,000 years ago (the first homo sapiens go back half a million) and agriculture is surely not older than 20,000 years, the first real evidence of it being about 10,000 years. Even assuming that wine is virtually simultaneous with agriculture (and I’m willing to assume that), I don’t see getting back much beyond 10,000.

wrong… who says humans were the only ones to drink wine…


also wild grapes go back millions of years … wine goes back millions of years too… hunter gathers made wine by accident at first … also by observing drunk animals around fruit that was fermenting… come on BB lets not think like bugs…

Although fermented fruit occurs in nature, human beings are the only ones who make wine. Saying that nature makes something is a convenient figure of speech, but when one starts to think that that’s what happens, absurd theories of teleological evolution soon follow. Since, of course, the point of this thread is to be absurd, though, perhaps that is just this one’s natural next step.

As to hunter gatherers, having discovered fermenting fruit then turning to making wine, they would have to cease to be hunter gatherers. Either they would cultivate the grapes they would ferment and thus have turned to agriculture or minimally they would stick around places where they could reliably find whatever forebear of grapes grew naturally. Since sticking around a place makes hunter gathering an ineffective means of supporting any population for very long, they would have to turn to agriculture within a generation or so. And, to get back to where I started, since reliable evidence of agriculture only takes it back 10,000 years…

no sir I respectfully disagreeable…

evidence of pre human involvement dates back over 12,000 years ago … before stone age… you need not to have a cultivated vine or humans to have wine production…

wild vines are millions of years old and so is wine… humans are so egotistical they think they have to be around for wine to be consumed… enjoyed… no way… millions of years old is wine…

you need not be exclusively a hunter gatherer … you are still hunter gatherer … roaming the land … tribes… drinking wine made by you … discovered by natural fermentations you observed…

cheers !!!

[BobH]

I thought science was evidence based, not poll-based.

[john_holdredge]

See, I want to be like King Fu…walking around, meeting people and shit…roaming the lands, drinking wine made by me…

[Mike_Miller]

@Mike Ritner

@Dave English

10,000BC was a poor year, seek out 9,999BC much better.

The problem is, the 9,999BC vintage is still shut down.

Really? I heard that it was the “vintage of the millennium” and we should buy all we can because it might be two or three years before the next vintage of the millennium was released!!??

[Brent_C_l_a_y_t_o_n]

@John D. Zuccarino

millions of years old is wine…