Is this Domaine or Maison Leroy?

[Thomas_De_Waen]

Gerald…it is always nice to hear ( and talk with you ).

You maybe right 100%.

In my first message, I agreed completely with Fred.

My 2nd message is just an educated guess ( as Kent only mentioned the total number of bottle and did not mention if there was a serial number on the label or not).

I have no experience with Leroy Volnay-Santenots other than l bought a case ( of 12 bottles) of same wine from vintage 1996 in New York USA. …(BTW…I also owned many Demaine wines from the mid-1990s - including 4 bottles of his Musigny from vintage 1995 which was 66% of the whole allocation for the province of Quebec).


*Maybe Leroy added the “du-Milieu” later, from 1997 (?) onwards.

This…I do not know. Merci…

Just checked the label against a 1993 domaine I recently drunk (red capsule) and it is 100pc Identical.

Gérard is also obviously right: if it says « domaine » or « propriétaire » on the label it legally cannot be bought in grapes. Remember the issues Ray Walker had with the « douanes »? They’re notoriously diligent on those points. Domaine and maison wine, for example, can’t ever be in the same location whether it be for elevate or bottling.

[Michael_Bowden]

Peter, with all due respect: IMHO that´s wrong - both.

If it´s a Domaine wine it cannot be from juice/grapes “bought” from other!
If juice/grapes were from others it has to be labelled
“Mis en bouteille par Maison Leroy - negociant à Auxey-Duresses”

What about the Ponsot wines? Clearly labeled as Domaine wines but I’m 99.9% sure he (or family now) doesn’t own them

Montrachet -

Corton -

etc…

[Peter_Chiu]

Gerald is right ( and again )…

I just checked and read the labels of all my Leroy bottles. All Miason bottles used the following:

“Mis en bouteille par Maison Leroy - negociant à Auxey-Duresses”

[Gerhard_P]

What about the Ponsot wines? Clearly labeled as Domaine wines but I’m 99.9% sure he (or family now) doesn’t own them

I don´t know.
I also don´t know the legal agreements between the (probable) owner and Ponsot.

What we see in the pic is actually (legally) the back label … all the legal information (750 ml, alc. etc.) is on the other (smaller) label on the other side … it would be interesting if there is anything written like:
“Mis en bouteille au Domaine” or “…a la proprieté”. I don´t think so.
I´m also not totally sure if everything is really ok …

---

There is a producer who first only produced Domaine-wines.
Labels read: Mis en bouteille a la proprieté - Domaine XYZ

Then he got a negociant license for a few purchased wines.
Instead of using different labels for Domaine and negoce-wines he changed all labels to

Mis en bouteille e distribué par XYZ (no Domaine, only the name).

You have to know if a wine is from own vineyards or purchased juice, no difference on the labels.

[John_Morris]

[What about the Ponsot wines? Clearly labeled as Domaine wines but I’m 99.9% sure he (or family now) doesn’t own them

Montrachet -

Are these produced under a metayage arrangement, where Ponsot farms the vineyard and gets a proportion (typically half, I think) of the fruit? If so, perhaps that qualifies the wine for “domaine” labeling because it’s, in effect, a lease and the winemaker controls the vineyard.

[Gerhard_P]

[What about the Ponsot wines? Clearly labeled as Domaine wines but I’m 99.9% sure he (or family now) doesn’t own them

Montrachet -

Are these produced under a metayage arrangement, where Ponsot farms the vineyard and gets a proportion (typically half, I think) of the fruit? If so, perhaps that qualifies the wine for “domaine” labeling because it’s, in effect, a lease and the winemaker controls the vineyard.

If it is a metayage (lease against half of the crop) or a fermage (lease against money) the vineyard becomes part of the Domaine for the running time of the agreement … then “Domaine” is correct …

[John_Morris]

Thanks, Gerhard. So my hunch was correct. I Googled that and consulted several books, including Jasper Morris’s, but I couldn’t find the answer.

[Gerhard_P]

Thanks, Gerhard. So my hunch was correct. I Googled that and consulted several books, including Jasper Morris’s, but I couldn’t find the answer.

I don´t think Ponsot makes the Montrachet for a long time, maybe for 4 or 5 vintages … and the Corton not for much longer - certainly not for 10 years … no surprise it´s not in Morris´book (released 2010).

[John_Morris]

Thanks, Gerhard. So my hunch was correct. I Googled that and consulted several books, including Jasper Morris’s, but I couldn’t find the answer.

I don´t think Ponsot makes the Montrachet for a long time, maybe for 4 or 5 vintages … and the Corton not for much longer - certainly not for 10 years … no surprise it´s not in Morris´book (released 2010).

I meant there was nothing in the Morris book about what can be labeled as “domaine” wine, not that he didn’t address Ponsot in particular. I couldn’t find any definition in the Larousse encyclopedia of French wine, either.

[Gerhard_P]

I meant there was nothing in the Morris book about what can be labeled as “domaine” wine, not that he didn’t address Ponsot in particular. I couldn’t find any definition in the Larousse encyclopedia of French wine, either.

I have no legal proof either, but I´m pretty sure:
vineyards worked in metayage or fermage: yes, domaine
purchased grapes/must: no, negociant

But there might still be a grey zone in between …

[R.Oesterle]

I meant there was nothing in the Morris book about what can be labeled as “domaine” wine, not that he didn’t address Ponsot in particular. I couldn’t find any definition in the Larousse encyclopedia of French wine, either.

I have no legal proof either, but I´m pretty sure:
vineyards worked in metayage or fermage: yes, domaine
purchased grapes/must: no, negociant

But there might still be a grey zone in between …

Tell me about Ponsot Montrachet?

[Peter_Chiu]

merci…Roman.