If it wasn't corked...what WAS that? (2011 Magdelaine)

Due to this recent thread, where @MChang and @Robert.A.Jr had a virtual tasting followed by mine two days later, I experienced something that Robert told me well after he posted yet another glowing Bordeaux thread — lest he disappoint his massive fan base — that his bottle, tasted the following day, was slightly corked. Clearly one cannot post that on WB when one has an unimpeachable reputation for Bordeaux expertise and reliably florid prose to maintain. Both are genuinely true, by the way — he is an expert and he does write fantastic notes — so a decision had to be made. I respect that. I’ve also bought a lot of wine on his say-so, so I need him functional.

To be fair, I’m guilty of the same misleading-by-omission — I didn’t update my own note when I sensed TCA roughly two hours after posting it. Glass houses. (plus I wasn’t busy packing for a week in Provence like he was)

My note from opening night showed I wasn’t exactly blown away. Even with a couple hours of air, the wine wasn’t giving me much. Then, perhaps by the power of suggestion, toward the end of my final glass (of roughly half the bottle), I too sensed slight TCA. Great. The remaining half went into a 375ml with a blast of inert gas and into the refrigerator for another occasion.

That occasion came last evening — six days later. My entirely rational expectation: if there are TCA compounds in this wine, six days of exposure (however brief), even with inert gas, should have amplified them. Quite the opposite happened. The wine finally started singing — still dominated by dark fruits, mint, and florals — but zero sign of TCA or cork taint whatsoever. In fact, the licorice quality you often see referenced in notes on this wine and vintage had become notably elevated…and there are some interesting similarities between licorice and TCA in the aromatic profile. Worth noting.

I’m unfortunately quite sensitive to TCA, which made this even more puzzling. Robert’s experience tracked similarly — someone who drinks far more Bordeaux (and wine generally) than I do — but in reverse. His TCA apparently came on late enough that he had already posted his notes, and between that and the hustle of getting out of town, a follow-up never materialized. Completely understandable. He’s a pop-and-pour-and-post guy — I’m fairly confident in that characterization — so it’s entirely plausible it was a ~2-hour phenomenon on his end as well. For the record, I filled this post with affirmations of the man. Mine had zero hint of TCA six days out. So what was it?

The question I’m genuinely curious about: what compounds or aromatic elements in a wine could convincingly mimic TCA, only to disappear entirely once the wine opens up properly? Magdelaine is notably earthy — this isn’t a fruit-forward Bordeaux, it’s a classic, richly structured Claret. Could one of those earthy or mineral components produce something that reads as TCA in the early going, then transforms or integrates as the wine breathes and blooms into what it actually is?

If so — what is that compound?

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I’ll be interested in the comments.

Faint TCA can be where it’s so difficult. We may not sense the aromas, and if it’s a wine we’ve never tasted before, we might easily dismiss is as a bit tough, lacking depth to the fruit etc. Even if we know the wine, maybe even the vintage, TCA isn’t always clear and obvious. On the upside, we’ll invariably still drink the wine, but on the downside, we remain uncertain why it was underwhelming. Was it the wine, the temperature, the setting, or us?

I recall a similar experience to yours, an incredibly tight bottle of Martinborough reserve 1998 (Pinot Noir). We’d not taken much out the bottle (maybe 2 tasting pours) and I recorked it, expecting a similar outcome to your expectation, that the TCA which I suspected, but couldn’t obviously sense, would emerge. I forgot about it for a while, opening it more than a week later, and it was majestic. Nothing since has behaved like that. Maybe it was a subtle form of reduction? I’ve no idea.

Yes, very similar, and to think that I, like you, likely, went in to that 2nd half of the bottle expecting a TCApalooza, since it had festered for a week…but NOTHING. Seriously puzzled

This is entirely based on my experience, but here goes…

I am incredibly sensitive to TCA. So much so, that I often detect it and reject a wine when everyone else is fine with it. One unfortunate side effect is that, because I am always tensed up against it, so to speak, I do sometimes imagine it when it’s not there. This is especially true - almost exclusively true, but not quite - when nosing Bordeaux. There is something about the sharpness, or metallic nature, of the nose on classic Bordeaux that often makes me think it is corked even when it is not. But once that intial sharpness wears off, I also agree it is not corked. So Jonathan never trust my nose when it comes to Bordeaux.

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I think this happened with a 76 pichon lalande we opened last year.

This discussion calls to mind Jasper Morris’s discussion of faux pre-mox, where white wines on opening seem oxidized, but then those notes blow off.

So many aroma compounds, and such crude chemical analysts, we humans.

I’d love to hear an explanation of Todd’s phenomenon from a board member more chemically literate than me.

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I’m still waiting for that, too!!!

(although maybe WB should coin that phrase, ‘Todd’s Phenomenon’

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Paging @Ben_M_a_n_d_l_e_r

I’ve had Bordeaux that shows a certain mustiness that I end up attributing to TCA that doesn’t have the normal wet-cardboard musty-carrot precise character of classic TCA taint. I have the idea that some musty notes especially in Bordeaux can also be something else; it clearly sounds like that in Todd’s case here since it dissipated over time.

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i agree with sara and stan here. BDX sometimes has a cellar funk mustiness, especially on initial cork pop. I found that after decanting/aeration/24hrs the aroma tends to blow off. I am also on the sensitive side to TCA. Could be several aromas at play here: reduction, hint of brett, oxidation, aged tertiary aromas, general fermentative ‘funk’. Might not be just one of these but a combination

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I am not convinced it is a flaw at all, only a part of Bordeaux aroma, especially upon opening, that my nose finds close enough to one aspect of TCA (not wet cardboard so much as swimming pool chlorine) that it interprets it as such.

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FIFY

PS. I am summering in the South of France, I don’t have time to respond to this intellectual discussion or disparagement of my famously-endowed yak palate.

Bring on”the” meme. . . .

You deserve it this time

image

Well that’s reassuring, as it wouldn’t be a great time to be wintering there.

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Note he DOES, however, have time to post his Strava workout…which he did on an e-bike!!! THAT’S NOT A WORKOUT

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Mostly crappy photos at odd hours of the night as well. Money does not sleep nor does Alfert.

To make sure I’m understanding correctly: it was fine at first, then 2 hours later smelled like TCA, then 6 days later smelled fine?

And did it smell specifically like TCA or did it only smell muted?

This is a weird one for sure and I don’t think I’m going to have a satisfying answer

Ouch, that hurts.

Check out Brig Campbell on Strava

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I’ll show my ignorance: sometimes, Brett can initially strike me as a TCA-like sensation. NOT EQUATING THE TWO IN ANY WAY, just a slightly off sensation.

Brett blows off.

There are probably some VA compounds that can do something similar.