Probably Gros frere. It can be pretty oaky. The 2002 Anne Gros riche we had earlier this year was very unusual but good, if not what we expected.
Yes I do still think the 2010s are aging faster than expected. The 2009s taste younger. It’s not something I’d think appropriate to describe as “oxidative” though. If there is a red Burgundy that tastes oxidative or oxidized, it’s either a badly made wine or a bad cork. Otherwise it shouldn’t have any different oxygen-derived properties than any other wine of a similar age.
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We’re getting off topic a bit here, but I find this discussion of 2009 and 2010 fascinating. I’ve been opening (mostly) village and a few 1ers and have been utterly charmed. The 2009s have been a little richer but not lacking in freshness. The 2010s have been all balance, grace and depth, with some of the village wines (producers like Fourrier & Lafarge) really punching above their weight class. I haven’t seen any early development, but also haven’t opened any GCs. Of the period 2003-2014 these two are easily my favorite and most reliable vintages. Btw I’m also loving 2005 but those wines generally seem to need even more time.
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This whole conversation is super interesting and enlightening and in particular I appreciate Tom Blach inserting the needle into the broad balloon.
What so many people are interested in, and seems very hard to ascertain, is how the heck do people coming into wine in 2024 achieve - not even top tier- but decent and pleasurable Burgundy experiences.
All wine forums are chock full of people who drank widely and far cheaper than the current day, and these elements seem to steer the conversation away from what is good to do now,
I’m comparatively new and the premise of this thread is so obviously “HOW CAN I GET GOOD EXPERIENCES” but shaded with an angle, cos nobody can see how they can get to a great experience without shelling out thousands.
Everyone here who has drank good burgundy in the last 2-3-4-5 decades has super useful information for the next generation. You can either tell us the benefit of what you know, and usher in the newbies, or just crack on opening all the wines you’ve stashed away and enjoyed at fractions the current prices, and we’ll sit on the outside.
I appreciate this may appear combative - it’s not though, you can help or not, but if you want to, it will be super appreciated by those looking on, the wine lovers of the future who just want a piece of the action that is SO HARD to find in 2024
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Buy fewer bottles from good producers instead of wasting money on possible “hidden gems” that are a “deal”
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That’s one strategy. But it all depends on your finances, consumption habits, preferences, etc.
If you’re a normal human, you won’t lose any sleep over not being able to compare the nuances of different DRC bottlings and vintages. Luxury products are not for everyone.
But, that’s just a tiny slice of Burgundy.
If you have a bit of money and can afford $100 bottles, you can specialize and develop deep relationships with lots of other villages/producers/vineyards. A very fulfilling path that is not about ‘deals’.
Of course depending on how tight your finances are, you may want to avoid Burgundy all together. But the world of wine is big and there’s lots of great stuff to explore!
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I don’t mean you have to buy the most expensive wines, just good ones.
Have you ever had any Burgundies? Is so, what producers have you liked? If not, why on earth are you starting with Grand Crus? Seems like a person wanting to learn math starting with Calculus. As I said before, FIND A LOCAL RETAILER YOU CAN WORK WITH TO EXPERIMENT AND FIND PRODUCERS YOU LIKE.
Almost all the 2010s I have had are still primary and need time. Other than wines from more simple appellations, I am still holding mine and drinking 2001s, 2002s, and 2007s.
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did you do any searches on this board for threads that might have this information. There are probably hundreds. But start with these two:
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Fair enough.
I do hear some people say they only want the best-of-the-best when it comes to Burgundy, or nothing else. Which doesn’t necessarily make sense to me.
But yes, I agree, no need to prioritize ‘deals’. Better to focus on the best wines you can buy, in your price range. That’s true for any region!
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I mean, I mostly buy from a small subset of producers most of which are higher end, but that’s mostly a function of having a lot of burgundy and not drinking that often.
This has been my experience as well for some producers. (I’m thinking especially about Henri/Philippe Jouan’s Clos St. Denis, which always gave me a more oaky impression than his Clos Sorbes or his village wines which I love.)
‘deal’ is relative tho and ignoring what is not trending in the market has big drawbacks imo. if you gushed over coche and roulot 10+ years ago you could have easily missed out on buying ente for cheap. and when ente got expensive you probably missed out on lamy caillat unless you continued to look for the next producer. same could be said for prieure roch, bizot, nicolas faure, etc. many great wines were unknown and or ignored at some point. of course tasting the benchmarks is important but not the end all be all. the wine market is frankly either too slow or too twitchy (think overpriced negoce producers who started to make wine yesterday) but there will always be opportunity for those with a sense of adventure and willingness to branch out.
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Of course. Nothing wrong with a deal! I’m not one to chase any brand names.
I think the point was just that if you focus on bargain wines at the expense of quality, you might regret it in the long run.
Agreed. When I started drinking Truchot, the wines were relatively inexpensive and were not scored that well. But, they were recommended to me by a fabulous merchant (David Schildknecht when he was in retail in DC) and I loved the wines. So, I started buying them. John Gilman led me to Chandon de Briailles and so I visited the estate and liked the wines. The wines I first loved the came Pernand Vergelesses, not Richebourg. A friend led me to Rossignol-Trapet and another producer. I loved the wines of RT, but not so much of the other producer.
chandon de briailles is a fantastic example of a producer largely ignored for no good reason yet makes top level burgundy at a fair price point. astor recently offered a 15 briailles corton rouge on clearance, right around $100 so less than a louis latour corton 
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Read a lot. Buy a few bottles and open them. One of the things about all wine, burgundy more than any other, is that you can’t simply go out and pay a lot and expect to have a great time, the great times are random points on the journey rather than points of arrival. There is certainly a relationship between the most reputed wines and the most exciting experiences but it is quite oblique; in the end that’s why it’s fun.
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I recently picked up some 2015 Gros Frere echezaux at auction. - mainly because I’d never had echezaux and Gros Frere seemed like a respectable producer and the price was right. Am I doomed to be disappointed? I am pretty expansive in my palate when it comes to burgundy, as I’m still getting the “feel” for it.
I guess that a lot of famous vineyards around Europe was once upon a time picked to be a top vineyard because they could produce the right amount of ripeness? Often south facing?
With global warming this can be an issue. Not sure if it is an issue in Burgundy?