Jay, Not too helpful I guess but my next trip will be a Rome apartment for a bunch of weeks and excursions to the other cities we want to visit via train/boats.
Rome could easily take a week to see correctly—leisurely, even moretime is needed (is there any other way?)
That’s my plan. Similar to yours with just a different home-base.
Just FYI - my original post was in 2013 - Dan necro’ed the thread. I have no problem with that! but for all the wonderful people giving me advice things got hectic last year so we never made the trip. This year we’re going to Singapore. Maybe we can make it to Italy next year.
We were in Italy last month. First time visitors. Rome, Florence, Venice, Alba, Porto Cervo. Took the train from Rome to Florence, Florence to Venice and then Venice to Alba, via Turin and Bra. Porto Cervo, being in Sardinia, required flying there. 
We have a friend who lives in Siena half of the year and he showed us around Florence. It helps that he’s a medieval historian. Get tickets for the Uffizi (Galleri degli Uffizi) in advance. We stayed at the Hotel Lungarno, on the south side of the river, and loved it. Ate at the Borgo San Jacopo (in the hotel, see if you can get one of the two balcony tables, over the river) and Trattoria Giovanni. Both were fantastic. I would second the recommendations not to try to drive in Florence. If you really need transportation, taxis were pretty cheap. My wife says that two days in Florence weren’t enough and who am I to disagree?
Venice was, well, Venice. Over run with cruise ship day trippers and ‘over run’ is no exaggeration. Thousands and thousands of them. See St. Mark’s and the Doge’s Palace, then get back on the ship. Easy to get lost on narrow, pedestrian only streets, which is part of the charm of Venice. Be sure to take a water taxi at least once. Get reservations in advance, but be sure to eat at Osteria alle Testiere. Hard to find but definitely worth it.
We were tasting in Barolo and Barbaresco, but Italian wineries are not like American wineries. At least in our experience, they do not have open to the public tasting rooms. Our tasting appointments were set up in advance through their American distributor.
Hi Patrick
Yes your advice on appointment vs. cellar door is important for Italy, and even when there is a cellar door (e.g. Montepulciano and I’m told also not unusual in areas of Chianti) it does still seem to be beneficial to make an appointment. We’ve only dropped into two cellar doors un-announced. One was in Montepulciano and it felt a somewhat cold/aloof experience, and the other perhaps even more so - and that was the Produttori del Barbaresco where I’ve known others speak very highly of (agreed) visits. I’ve generally emailed direct, though some tourist/wine tourism agencies (such as LangheRoero.it) will organise it for you. I like their approach of free appointments but a hefty penalty fee if you don’t turn up for that appointment.
I’ve not been to Venice (I have something of an aversion to heavily touristy locations), but your advice to disappear off the main tourist areas and (excuse the wording) ‘get lost’, is something that is regularly echoed on travel fora… and they also typically add, that if you want to go to Piazza San Marco etc. then bite the bullet on cost, stay locally and hit those sights in early morning or in the evening.
regards
Ian
Ian, the time to see Piazza San Marco and St. Mark’s is to go to Mass on Sunday morning. (Nobody checks your religious credentials at the side door entrance.) We walked about 2000 meters from our hotel (Ca Segredo) and saw 10 people, all locals, and two dogs. NOW I know when they take all of those pictures of gondolas on side canals with no people in the picture! There were about two dozen people for Mass and the art was amazing. Read up on the fourth Crusade to find out why. The cruise ships don’t seem to come in on Sunday, apparently because St. Mark’s is closed until 2 p.m. 8 a.m. Mass got us out at the perfect time to do the bell tower in the piazza and then watch the flag raising ceremony.
Thanks everyone for the excellent advice on Tuscany and Florence. Very convenient, as we’ll be there in 6-8 weeks. Can anyone recommend a good or great hotel in the Tuscan Hills to use as a home-base for 3-4 days? (This will be separate from our stay in Florence).
Patrick - In Venice we are staying at Ca Sagredo (first time at that hotel). What did you think? Any tips or advice? Did you do either the chef’s market tour or their complementary boat ride to Murano (do they even have the latter? - some say yes, some say never heard of it).
Thanks in advance.
Theo
I don’t have a specific suggestion in the Tuscan hills since it has been a very long time (we just stayed in Florence on this trip), but if you are planning to visit wineries I would recommend that you find something south of Siena (or at least right around Siena) so that you will be closer to wineries you might want to visit. Driving around takes a whole lot of time given the small and winding roads once you get off the main highway.
Do not miss going to San Gimignano - has to be one of my favorite towns (eat at Bel Soggiorno, on the Main Street just into the city, at a table overlooking the vineyards).
Also, if you feel like pizza and don’t mind driving there, don’t miss Palazzo Pretorio. Terrific pizza and a terrace overlooking the hills and vineyards in the small down of San Donato in Poggio. As we found out the hard way, it is only open for dinner. Reservations in advance are a must as it was packed.
Theo, yes, we stayed at Ca Segredo. Ask for the one room (429 or 427, I’ve forgotten which) that has the roof patio. You can look out over all of Venice. Beautiful. Take a water taxi to the hotel’s front porch. We did the Murano trip because my wife does glass work herself. Frankly, the free water taxi trip to Murano and back scored me some big points with my wife. You are going to get the sales pitch for their products and we got a set of champagne flutes, which I was sort of in the market for anyway, shipped to us here, so we didn’t have to haul them around with us the rest of the trip. About the only drawback to Ca Segredo is that it has only one elevator, so sometimes you wait or take the stairs.
Theo
Do you have specific interests / aims for those 3-4 days, or just to balance off Florence vs. a hilltop town for some variety. If that is the aim, then there are plenty of options. If specific wine regions are of interest, then the choice may be quickly narrowed down.
Also worth considering whether you’ll take local transport (typically buses/coaches) or drive. If driving, it can be worth looking at agriturismo accommodation (www.agrituismo.it) for farmstays with typically great value freshly picked/prepared food. Some are very fancy indeed. For something more quirly/characterful I’d also suggest ‘special places to stay’ website.
Only one Tuscan hilltop town we’ve stayed in (Montepulciano), and that an apartment (Politian). Both town and apartment were good and 3-4 days would be enough to get a feel for the place plus a short day trip or two elsewhere. The hill is pretty steep in places.
Dan, Patrick & Ian - thanks much for all your very helpful replies.
Ian & Dan - We will have a car in Tuscany (picking it up on leaving Florence), and have no agenda other than (i) we’ve never been to Tuscany, and so want to really see it/what’s best about it and (ii) in just looking at pictures (and having been to Umbria and Burgundy) - those rolling hills and vineyards and medieval hill towns of Tuscany just seem mind-blowing. So, I guess the goal is just to see it and enjoy it as best as possible for what is special about it.
Re wine - that is an interesting and slightly embarrassing question. We both love wine, and might have an interest in tasting/visiting wineries, if that is a must-do/there is a or some special places. The slightly embarrassing part comes from - I know exactly nothing about Tuscan wine. I and we absolutely love Burgundy, and 90+ percent of our wine consumption (and visiting and tasting) is Burgundy/in the cote d’or. Otherwise, we do enjoy some Barolo, and a little Bordeaux, etc. So, I know almost zip about wine in Tuscany. If any of you have recommendations re wines to drink or a winery or two to visit to get a sense of the place - that would be great. By looking at the map, Chianti is there, and I assume Montepulciano is there too. But otherwise I’m just completely in the dark (and would love suggestions). The only thing I think I am not interested in is the ‘Super Tuscans’ and such ‘internationally styled’ wines.
Patrick - excellent re Ca Sagredo, thanks. I’ve heard there is one bad room in the place - an attick room with no windows, but assuming 427/429 is not this room - we will try and get it. Did you get breakfast there & if so, did you think it was worth it? And was the restaurant any good, or should we just use the Terrazo on the canal for drinks? Excellent tip too on St. Mark’s church - I wish we were in Venice on a Sunday. BTW - have you seen the bedroom from the Ca Sagredo in the Metropolitan museum in New York? I’ve only seen pictures - you can Google it under the Met & Ca Sagredo - one of the most amazing Italian rooms I’ve ever seen.
Thanks again,
Theo
Theo
No need to be embarrassed - plenty of blind spots in my wine interest.
Sangiovese generally rules, from Chianti through Montepulciano and Montalcino. For me the bonier wines of Montepulciano (vino Nobile) hold great interest, more than the fleshier Montalcino (Brunello). Chianti can be at either end and also with all levels of quality, plus with some invading international grapes. Still an under-rated area IMO. Coincidentally we’re enjoying a Orcia doc ‘Malintoppo’ tonight from Simonelli-Santi - a fine value, sometimes bretty wine from a lesser known region. Vin Santo is the other famous wine, and varies from the utterly sublime (Avignonesi - wow!) to the dull rip-off that even spoils the cantuccini biscuits they are often drunk with. The style varies from sherried/oxidised to more unctuous (which I prefer).
Montepulciano might be a nice option for a day trip, as the wines can be tasted without appointment at a large number of wineries’ cellar doors/shops. I’m told parts of Chianti are similarly geared up to drop ins.
In much of Tuscany, other varieties are being tried, and there is certainly an innovative air in the region, even if many have reverted back to what was ideal in the 1st place
With a car, I would tend to avoid the larger towns, or at least only consider places on the edge of town (the agriturismi work well in this respect). It really does sound like a country place with easy driving to get to other places might appeal. It sounds like you would enjoy the journey as much as the destination. Packing a nice picnic lunch gathered from an alimentari, gastronomia, and/or fruttivendola may be ideal, followed up by a walk alongside poppy fields. Some places will even do the picnic for you if you ask them (me, I enjoy shopping in the little specialist shops so that’s no hardship).On tat subject, if you have an I-pod or I-Pad, I know the excellent Golosario do a free app that is simply the full shop listing scanned from their book. Low-fi solution but their research is excellent and they do generally list very fine food shops.
Ian - Thanks very much. This is tremendously helpful. And yes - after literally sublime picnics overlooking the lavender fields of Provence and in places like the stone wall of Chevalier Montrachet, all with local charcuterie/salumi and cheese, bread, fruit, wine etc all sourced in local markets - that actually is what we were planning to do in Tuscany: Hit local markets for wine and picnic materials for lunch, and then if we found or have some killer restaurants on our list, go there for dinner. Thanks again, very much. Theo
Ok, Ian, I just looked up Il Golosario - and that looks KILLER/perfect for what we want. What a great resource. We will have some kind of I phone, pad, etc - so that looks perfect. Thanks again, very much. You don’t happen to know a resource listing the main local farmer’s markets market days & locations, do you?
Hi Theo
I popped across to slowtrav, and yes that question had come up there before, so hopefully the links in there will have up to date listings
http://slowtalk.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/862600685/m/50410097421?r=90810968421#9a0810968421
Regards
Ian
Sounds like a good place to base ourselves for a few days before heading to the C.T.
Dan
Yes CT isn’t too far away. Will you have a car? Such things are almost essential around the Barolo villages, but a positive handicap for CT, which is best navigated by boat train and on foot.
Regards
Ian
I expect I’ll rent a car at MXP (Milan airport) and then get rid of it before the C.T., possibly in Genoa. I think we can train it from there.
For anyone who likes history, I recommend using Through Eternity http://www.througheternity.com/ as a tour guide for the Forum/Coluseum and the Vatican in Rome. Wonderful and very informative. Need to tour Pompei with one of their guides in the future.
Hi Dan
Yes regular trains to CT from Genova, which itself is a decent city. Worth also considering a drop off in La Spezia, as it is so close to CT, so it is a 15 min rather than 2 hour journey. La spezia is nothing to write home about, but has a great evening passeggiata along the pedestrianised streets.
Regards
Ian
After doing additional research, looks like the C.T. will be done as a long day trip from Genoa, possibly an overnight. I hear that many stores/restaurants are closed in mid-November.
If we spend 4 days and 3 nights touring the Piedmont region, how many days should I plan on seeing the Dolomite region? I’m not sure if we’ll do this, or possible fly to Berlin for a long weekend (using my British Airways Avios points for a cheap 1 way redemption). ![[wink.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/04707e6a7bbb03e0153e349d8a9270d30e1e9525.gif "wink"){kind=small}
Thoughts?