First time visiting Italy - suggestions?

Travel, Wine Tourism, and Restaurants Forum
81

Hi Dan
We did the reverse i.e. day tripped to Genova from Riomaggiore, so it is doable. However I reckon this would be a harder day trip, as the whole joy of CT is the walking, but I fear it would not feel as good after a long train trip. Have you looked at Camogli? Much closer to Genova, with apparently some nice walks and great scenery, plus you might feel you have ‘seen it’ in a day trip, whereas CT really does merit 3-4 days min, but better for a week.

Plenty to see in the Dolomites, though I would lean towards the cities of Bolzano and Trento, as November will be the lull after the walking season, and before the ski season for the really scenic destinations. Even mid-late September felt like it was winding down. Still the scenery is stunning (with suitably intimidating driving on roads cut into the rock). Lago Molveno literally made my jaw drop when we saw the view from our apartment. If staying in the cities, then I would say length of stay isn’t so critical. From a couple of days to a week, plenty to do, but quick to get a feel for it. May need to change trains at Bologna, but trenitalia.com will advise.

82

P.s. If day tripping to Camogli, and heading back late afternoon, I’m told the early evening passeggiata in Recco is a good one, as appears to be so often the case with otherwise unpreposessing towns in Italy.

83

Just got back from my first substantial trip to Italy and thought I’d share the highlights. We flew into Venice and out of Rome. Saved about $500 per ticket doing that way versus in and out of Rome. We were only in Venice for two nights, but managed two very good meals. First at CoVino. I think this restaurant is kind of new (at least that’s the feeling I got). It was prix fix at Eur 36 and well worth it. Wine list is mostly, if not all, Italy with a focus on bio/organic producers in the Venice region. Second meal was Alle Testiere. Great fish place.

The highlight of the trip for me was the time we spent in the Dolomites. Specifically, we stayed two nights in Selva at the Hotel Nives and two nights in Ortisei at the Hotel Gardena Grodnerhof. Some of the best hiking I’ve ever done in Europe and that includes the mountain regions of France, Switzerland, and Austria. Make sure you do half-board at Nives as the food is fantastic and the price differential is Eur 20 pp/night. Both have really good wine lists. Going again, I would just pick one place to base from in the Val Gardena, and it would be one of these two places.

The highlights of Rome for me were the Vatican tour and Salumeria Roscioli. As others have mentioned on WB, Roscioli is a place you just find yourself going back to. Great food in a cozy, casual atmosphere. I’ll give Sorpasso as an honorable mention as a casual lunch place. We went out of our way to eat there twice.

That’s it.

84

Chris
Yes and that ‘open jaw’ air ticket also saves you backtracking… making more time to actually be on holiday rather than travelling.
regards
Ian

85

In researching the area, I found a hotel in Langhe Cherasco that appears suitable as a base for day trips to the Piedmont wine country. Anyone have thoughts on this?

We’ll also spend 4 or 5 days in Turin.

86

Dan
The only one that comes up when I googlemap that is west of Cherasco on the junction of an Autostrada. If that’s it, there are going to be hundreds of better options. Places with more character and within the wine regions.

Cherasco itself isn’t far away and might be a decent option, but everyday would be a drive. Better IMO to choose a village you want to visit and base yourself there. That gives you at least a day where the car can stay put, and you can instead walk between wineries - even walking through the vineyards to traverse them. [edit: of course Cherasco might appeal, in which case why not use it as a base]

We’re about to head over there including a few days in Turin/Torino. Here’s an extract from the cribsheet I’ve got that evolved over the years

Turin
Further sights
Via Alfieri 15 – Dante’s Door
Markets – Porta Palazzo (Mon-fri 8:30-1.30pm Sat 8.30-6.30pm; Piazza Benefica, Corso Palestro, La Crocetta
Post Office – via Alfieri 10 (M-F8.30-2.30pm & 3-6.30pm Sa 8.30-1pm)
Third Sunday of the month
Seasonal fruit Piazza Carlo Alberto All day long 8:30am-6:30pm
Market of high quality food and craft products. 40 exhibitors Piazza Madama Cristina All day
Piazza Gran Madre – antiques market 8.30am – 6.30pm (Sundays?)
Balon flea market – Saturdays Via Borgodora 29 Torino (behind Piazza Reppublica)
Liquers – Toccasana; Zeroundici, Barathier

Dining
Gennaro Esposito, via Passelacqua 1g (bustling Pizza place, but good, closed sundays)
La Vitel Etonne, via San Francesca da Paola (furthest end from PN station)

  • TAVERNA DELL’OCA, 24, v. Dei Milletel: 011 837547
  • Tre Galline, via Bellezia 37 (traditional, regional with good wines, closed sundays)
    Trattoria Valenza – Via Borgodora 39 (Closed Sunday and Monday lunch; Casual & v. good – nr.market)
    Trattoria dai Saletta – via Belfiore 37 (Closed Sunday; high quality 011/668767)
    Trattoria L’Oca Fola – Via Drovetti 6g (nr Porta Susa Station 011/4337422 Monday – Saturday eve)
    Al 24- via Montebello 24 (near Mole, cheap and has truffles in season)
    Al Garamond - Via G. Pomba 14 (sounds very good – nr Casa del Barolo)
    Spaccanapoli, via Mazzini 19 (good lively place for pizza)
  • C’era Una Volta Corso Vittorio Emanuele II 41/42? To enter “Once Upon a Time,” you must ring a bell at street level, then climb the stairs or take the elevator to a large, old-fashioned dining room filled with heavy old tables and chairs and dark credenzas. (local cuisine & good value, closed Sunday 011-655-498)
    Savoia – Via Corte d’appello 13 (inventive food, near the castello, closed sundays)
    Hotel Grand Sitea – via Carlo Alberto 35 (surprisingly good)
    Hosteria La Vallée Via Provana 3b (quiet area)
    Vintage 1997 - Piazza Solferino 16/h (closed Sunday and Saturday lunch – good food & wide wine list, albeit a bit pricey)
    Hafa Caffe - – via Sant’Agostino 23C (Middle-eastern food and pretty good with it)
  • Refettoria - via dei mille 23D (good value lunch destination)
    Rosticceria on via Gramsci 12 (cheap)
    Cucco – Corso Casale 89
    La Cloche – Strada Traforo del pino (nr Superga rack rail, game, mushrooms, truffles)
    Monferrato – via monferrato (near Gran Madre)
    Cubico, via Saluzzo 86 (good & value)
    *La Scaletta, via Giuria 27d (nr apartment)
    Imbarco Perosino di Grazville, viale Virglio 53 (in Parco Valentino)
    Nuova Ristrorante Crocetta, via Marco Polo 21 (Crocetta)
  • Da Angelino, Corso Moncalieri 59 (South of Gran Madre) nr. Apartment
    L’Agrifoglio, via Accademia Albertina 38d (nr Casa del Barolo)
    Le Otto Colonne, via Giulia di Barolo 5 (good porcini, near Cave du Jour)
    Solferino, Piazza Solferino 3
    Agricafe, via Bossolasco 6 (incl. San Pé gelato)
    M** Bun, Corso Sicardi 8° (‘slow’ fast food burgers)

Fish
Mare Nostrum – via matteo pescatore 16 (closed Sundays, bit pricey, but very good)
Barrique – Corso Dante 53 (closed Sunday and Monday, expensive)
Al Grassi – via Grassi 9 (Puglian cuisine and Italian style sushi)
La Porta Rossa – via Passelacqua 3b (closed Sunday)
Villa Somis – Strada val Pattonera 138 (closed Sunday pm and Monday)
L’Ancora, Covered food market on Corso Racconigi 51 Fancy artistic fishmongers, eat in or take home to cook sun mon
Il Corallo, Piazza Madama Cristina market mon
Macellerie
Bruno Bergoglio, via Principi d’Acaja 35 sun thu pm
Giampiero Riassetto, via Morosini 8 sun wed pm
Michele Gadaleta, Piazza Dante Livio Bianco 2 (inc. their own sausages & parcels) sun thu pm
Nicola, Piazza Nizza 79c (20-50 day hung meats) sun thu pm
Silvano Pistis, covered market on Corso Racconigi 51
Barberis, Corso Sebastopoli 147 sun thu pm
Agrisalumeria Luiset, via Principe Amadeo 20 (good sausages as well)


Food Walk
Via Lagrange – 34, *36, *36a, *38a, 38c, *39f (ex cyclist)
Via San Tommaso – 10, 12B (Sapori di Tassinari gastronomia), 13, 22b
Cnr of v.ST and v.B Peruquet Ouva e Burro + enoteca wine tasting opposite
Via Barbaroux – 11 (rosticceria / tavolo caldo), 12f

Food Stores (generally closed wed pm and Sundays)
*Gastronomia Baudracco – Corso Vittorio Emanuele II 62 (near Porta Nuova – for picnics and lots more)
*Gastronomia Steffanone – via Maria Vittoria 2 (nr Piazza San Carlo – small but quality + good wines)
Gastronomia Gallo - Corso Sebastopoli 161
Paissa – Piazza San Carlo 196 (varies from great to banal)
Enodolceria - Piazza Statuto 14
Scanavino primzie - Via Nizza 11 (nr. Porta Nuova)
Giulebbe - Via della Rocca 39 g (not cheap – but classy)
Gastronomia Barbro, via Fratelli Carle 6 (cheese selection)
Gastronomia Idoi Scalin, via consolata 7 (off via Garibaldi)
*Piazza dei mestieri, via Durandi 13 (nr Corso Francia/Corso R M beer, chocolates, bakery Sat lunch, Sun eve)
Borgiattino, corso Vinzaglio 29 (cheese) sun, mon

  • Divisia, Via San Tommaso 22 & via Tonello 1a / ang.Corso Casale (not just cheese, but prepared foods & lunch – mostly steamed) sat, sun
    Roby e Roby, via Monferrato 11 (prepared dishes / gastronomia) sun wed am
    Santa Polenta, via Barbaroux 33 (deli/buffet nr market with polenta dishes plus soups etc.) sun
    Torteria Dolce e Salato, via dei Mercanti 8 (cakes & pies incl. Strudel & wines) sun
    *Eataly, via Nizza 230/14 (Lingotto) 10:30-11pm (now open every day – was closed mon)
    funghi secchi corno sergio, 3, Via Cremona (north of market)
    Tartufi E Vini Srl 262, Via Nizza
    La Foglia Via Reiss Romoli 291 (north west of city – sells mushrooms & fruit veg – might not be special)
    Aicardi, via San Francesco di Paola 11d (hand made pasta workshop)
    Angolo dei Sapori Corso Re Umberto 36 (great fruit & veg plus funghi/tartufi) sun, wed pm
    Ferrero via Bertola 6 (wide ranging deli) sun thu pm
    Ferri Corso Giulio Cesare 155 (fresh pasta)
    Quaranta via Giordano Bruno 200 (fancy cheese salumi etc plus fresh dishes sun, wed pm
    Cibo container Corso Marconi 33b 10-3 & 5:30-8pm Eat in or takeaway gastronomia
    El Canton dij Formagg Corso Casale 314b (nr Superga Rack railway)
    Redomante Pappi via XX Settembre 20d (full range Gastronomia) sun, wed pm
    Rosada via Magenta 10
    Da Virgilio Corso Casale 384 (fresh pasta nr. Superga rack railway) Mon
    Il Frutto Permesso @ via Napione 24 & Le Cascine della Centrale on via Filadelfia
    Latteria di Silvano e Antonio d’Auria, via Legnano 16° (fresh and preserved fruits incl. Rare apples, cider – expanding range)
    Renato Corso Regina Margherita 17 (fresh pasta) sun, mon
    Bixal Corso Fiume 12 (lots of seafood)
    Bottega Sarda Via Sobrero 28 (Sardinian foods)
    Dal Siculo, Via San Quintino 31 (Interesting ice-cream flavours inc. celery, beer, etc)
    Macelleria Nicola, via Nizza 79 (local meats)
    Macelleria Testa, Piazza Repubblica stand 112-114 (historic)
    Pasta e Vino, via Casteldelfino 5d (fresh pasta, cheese salami etc.)
    Pastificio Giustetto, Via Santa Teresa ang. Via San Francesco d’Assisi (century old pasta making)
    Pescheria L’Ancora, Corso Racconigi 51 (interesting fish dishes)

Wine
Casa del Barolo – via Andrea Dora 7 (slightly pricey & too warm but great choice & cellar)
Enoteca Delsanto – Corso dei Gasperi 21 & via piazzi 5(closed Sundays – poor website or just a bit touristy)
Enoteca Zacco-Datarra – via monferrato 23 (wine bar + wine shop)
Grandi Bottiglie Via Natale Palli via Boccardo 36
La Vitel Etonne - Via San Francesco da Paola 4, 10123 Torino (in hindsight, they have quite a small list – nice place for a glass or two and some light food though)
IL VINAIO sas di ZACCHELLO GIANCARLO E C. 38, v. Cibrario (west of Porta Susa with old vintages)
B&R BEVANDE , v. 7 Comuni 14 (Lingotto area – fair prices, Cuomo fuor d’uva but limited range)
SETTI CARLO e C. v. Canova, 21 (near apartment)
CINQUE STELLE di PARISI GABRIELLA - v. Pastrengo 5 (Nr. Porta Nuova)
IL VESTITO GUSTOSO di DANA BORGA ANNA & IAPELLO MARIANNA - v. Lagrange 31
Enoteca del Piemonte - Via Nizza 294
Antica enoteca del borgo - Via Monferrato 4 sun, mon am

  • Enoteca Vada - Via Cibrario 38 (many older vintages available)
    Il bottigliere - Via San Francesco da Paola 43
    Millésimes - Via Madama Cristina 167 (French)
    Vinarium - Via Madama Cristina 119 (prestige bottles)
    Menietti - via Corte d’Appello 22 (not wine, but wine accessories & equipment)
    Damarco - Piazza della Repubblica 4 liqueurs and wines from all over the world
    Martinetti winery: Corso Filipo Turati 14
    Da Bacco – via Madama Chistina 82 Sun also preserves etc. (also good for lunch and aperitivo)
  • La Petit Cave – Corso de Gasperi 2 (Crocetta district) – also good aperitivo/tasting sun, mon
    Enoteca Papa Noe, corso stati Uniti 11, se of Porta Nuova
    Wineexplorer, via Viotti 2 (just S. Of via Po) incl. Cuomo etc.
    *Enoteca Rizzollo via Monginevro 93f & via Duchessa Jolanda 4g (south west, with old vintages plus Nosiola and also food/tasting


    Wine Bars
    *Taberna libraria - Via Bogino 5 (wine bar, kitchenware, deli and bookshop)
    Tre Galli – via Sant’Agostino 25 (good wine bar with simple food and decent aperitivi snacks)
    Vinicola Ai Sorij – via pescatore 10C (only Italian soft drinks – no Coke!)
    L’Ostu – via Colombo 63 (closed Sundays)
    ROSSORUBINO ENOTECA - v. Mad. Cristina 21 (open till 9pm) Sun
    ENOTECA FABI - c. Belgio 49 (near Cave du Jour)
    Enoteca Rizzollo via Monginevro 93f & via Duchessa Jolanda 4g (behind Porta Susa station) inc. antoniolo
    Birrificio Torino, via Parma 30, Food & microbrewery open 8pm onwards
    Enoteca caffe, via San Quintino 6 (from 7am cafe, wines wine bar food & aperitivo)


    Bakeries / Pasticcerie / Chocolate / Ice-cream
    Avvignano – Piazza Carlo Felice 50 (closed mon am and Sunday, good décor)
    *Falchero, via san Massimo 4 (off via Po, closed Mondays – try the pasticcini)
    Peyrano – Corso Moncalieri 47 (+ at Pfatisch Corso Vittorio Emanuelel II 76 & Via Sacchi 42 possibly the best chocs)
    Fratelli Stratta, Piazza San Carlo 191 (closed mon am and Sunday, fresh)
    Gobino – via Lagrange 1 (closed mon am)
    Croci Bruno – via Principessa Clotilde 61a
    Candifrutto, via avogadro 18c (nr cittadella/porta susa)
    Monteccone, via cesana 56 (south of Corso Francia, down via Saffi) sun, mon
    Mamycao, Piazza Solferino 10 (chocolates & ice-cream)
    EuroCrem, via Pietro Giuria 25, (Ice-cream nr. Du Parc) fri
    Grom, via Garibaldi 11, via Accademia 4, Piazza Paleocapa/Carlo Felice 1d (Ice-cream)
    Miretti, Corso Matteotti 5 (ice-cream nr. Piazza Carlo Felice)
    Mondello, Piazza Emanuele Filiberto 8 (ice-cream plus spiced iced coffee nr market)
    RivaReno, via Lagrange 29 (ice-cream)
    *Testa, Corso re Umberto 56, (ice-cream south of Porta Nuova inc. Crem chantilly and choc. / coffee sorbet and other experiments) sun
    Aldo Luciano, via dei mercanti 2, (panetteria) sun, mon am
    Avetta, via cibrario 31, (panetteria) sun
    Bertotto, Corso Svizzera 38, (cakes, chocs, savouries nr. Corso Francia) mon
    Gertosio, via Lagrange 34 (choc, cakes) mon
    Medico, via Martiri della Liberta 4 (cakes, deli, chocs nr Via Monferrato) sun pm, mon
    Pfatisch, via Sacchi 42 (pastries and chocs Sth of Porta Nuova) mon
    Raspino, Corso Regio Parco 24, (cakes, chocs & coffee shop E-NE of Market) mon
    Stroppiana, via Pasquale Pauli 51 (chocs)
    Capitano Rosso, Corso Triano 158 (chocs)
    Cremeria Sampione, Corso Vercelli 156 (delicate small cakes and gelato)
    Emporio Sicamoro, International inc. NZ
    Fermento la birra a Torino, via Cibrario 31
    Gastronomia Pappi, via XX Settembre 20
    Gelateria 249, Via Mazzini 17 & Corso Urbassano 249
    Les Chocolats, via Galvini 14
    Pasta e Vino (and good salami) via Casteldelfino 5
    Peccati di Gola, via Arsenale 38 (multi regional)
    Premier Cioccolato, via Bersezio 5 (including spices)
    *Odilla, via fratelli carle 38/40
    Dell’Agnese, Corso Unione Sovietica 417 (cookies, chocs / artistic chocs) mon
    Silvano, via Nizza 142 (gelateria) mon
    Menodiciotto, via Santagata 56 (large scale but interesting/experimental flavours)
    Eurocrem, via Pietro Guiria 25 (gelateria, but also gelato filled fruits)
    Dolcemanai, via Guido Reni 205a (gelateria) Mon-Sat 2pm-midnight + sun am
    Andrea Perione, via Cavour 10 (good breads)
    Cucina-To, via Bonzanigo 5g (responsible fast food)
    Gatsby’s, via Soleri 2 & Via Madama Cristina 73 (gelateria, bar, aperitivi, lunch)
    Grey Cafe, via Mazzini 8, elegant but simple breakfast and lunch
    L’Officina Cacao, via Mazzini 56e (chocolate)
    Paneficio Guala, Piazza Statuto 13 (proper torinese grissini)
    Pasticceria Ciocolatteria Elsy, Corso Casale 96 & via da Verrazzano 66 (artistic chocs , fancy pralines, mignons etc.)


    Coffee shops
    Testa – Corso Re Umberto 56 (incl wine sorbets)
    Baratto e Milano – Piazza Castello 29 (closed Mondays)
    *Al Bicerin – Piazza della Consolata 5 (closed wed, sat & sun lunch; Bicerin drink & Ratafia liquer
    Casa del Caffe, Piazza Carlo Felice 49 (closed Mondays)
    Barolino Cocchi – via Bonelli169
    Mulassano - Piazza Castello 15 (closed Sundays, stylish)
    Neuv Caval d’brons – via Roma 157 (Piazza San Carlo, closed Wednesdays, go for coffee and mignons cakes)
    Caffe Torino – Via Roma 204 (Piazza San Carlo, closed Sundays)
    (also another at Piazza San Carlo 156)
    Abrate - Via Po 10 (closed Sundays, coffee and pastries)
    Pausa Café, via Pianezza 30 eyc.
    Saporito, via Maddelena 43 (breakfast cakes gelato mon
    Gran Brasile, Corso Cadore 33 (Beans +) wed pm

Aperitivi (see also wine bars)
Bar Zucca – Via Roma 265 (closed Sundays)
Caffe Roberto, via Po 5
Neuv Caval Brons – Piazza San Carlo 157
Pastis, Piazza Emanuele Filiberto 9 b 5:30-8pm (great food)
Arancia di Mezzanotte, Piazza Emanuele Filiberto 11 (big spread of good food, cocktails & food shop)
Floris House, Via Cavour 16 (1st floor, plus perfumes, flowers etc. & fine cocktails)

Bookshops
Feltrinelli – Piazza Castello 19
Luxembourg – Via Cesare Battisti 7

Dept Stores (closed Sundays)
Rinascente – via Lagrange 15-17
UPIM – via Roma 305

regards
Ian

87

I’m a minimum of 3 weeks from that type of research. [whistle.gif]

Thanks very much.