Does Bordeaux provide the best QPR wines in the world right now?

It’s not very good, either. But, I think Faryan’s point is true, Bordeaux is very easy to backfill. One can build a killer cellar today by backfilling alone, without necessarily breaking the bank, like one would have to do to backfill like that on Burgundy, Rhônes, etc. The quantity is so vast.

Are you saying that 2005 is not a good vintage? Or Haut Bergey? Must be the latter…

There are other examples of excellent 05s that are still widely available for well under $100. BAMA, Langoa, Rol Valentin come to mind…

I don’t think he is saying anything except the pricing for the 2005 was absurd. I think it is an utterly superb vintage, but I bought a fraction of what I had planned, and eighteen years later, they have barely caught up with the opening prices.


I’m asking about Robert’s comment

I first read “it” to mean the vintage but on reflection clearly he means the Chateau.

Haut Bergey.

I like 2005. Just backfilled on a few Langoa Barton. Last year grabbed some BAMA, the year before a full case of Magdelaine. Some major winners in that year. Have not tried the Rol Valentin, do tell!

Hehe I will point you back to the discussion from a few years ago:

It’s an excellent non-spoofy St Emilion.

I just bought a case of 2016 Haut Bergey from UGC liquidation.
For $17 each delivered its a great tuesday bordeaux. But if I paid the normal $30 for it, it would be disappointing.

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Absolutely. 100%.

05 absurd pricing aside, the oceans of BDX aren’t appreciating compared to other vogue regions that have significantly less supply. I see no structural reason to suggest a reversion of this trend. I think it’s great for Bordeaux buyers personally. Just might buy my first bottles of Bordeaux in about a decade if this keeps up.


Totally agree. Like you said, this is good for Bordeaux drinkers. Generally speaking, I don’t see Bdx as a good investment vehicle, unless one has a lot of money to throw at it; and then there’s that pesky little reality that there are so many other things to invest in that are likely to yield greater returns. I walked away from Bdx when the 2005 EP campaign launched — didn’t want to pay those prices, and it was juuuuust as I was getting into it. I largely stayed away until the 2014’s were released, and those sucked me back in. For a single vintage. Didn’t like '15 pricing or what I was reading about vintage style. Then '16 was another Best Vintage Ever, and with pricing to match. '17 and '18 – {yawn}. Then got sucked back in with the incredible '19 pricing, and '20 pricing hasn’t been bad enough to scare me away again. Next time I get scared-off it might be a Forever Thing — I’m not getting younger, and we’ve probably got enough Bdx. to meet our lifetime needs at this point. What might you buy with your first-in-a-decade Bdx purchase?

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Off the top of my head…Haut Bailly, Figeac, PLL, Gloria, Rausan Segla, Palmer, D de Chevalier Blanc, and Cantemerle would be my watch list.

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Solid. :+1:

Add Brane-Cantenac

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Grab some Ferriere as well, 1995, 2000, 2005, 2016 and 2019.


And Durfort Vivens. Firing on all cyclinders in 2016 and 2019.

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Anti social Bordeaux social club. No spoofs allowed.

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I remember a number of years ago when we both were at a Figeac tasting that Panos organized. The wines were outstanding. I have also enjoyed Figeacs from that era when I have had them more recently. But, after that time I have read that they have gone to the dark side. When you compliment Figeac, are you including the more recent vintages? [I probably drink about 10 bottles of Burgundy compared with Bordeaux these days, at least, and while I still love Bordeaux, I don’t follow younger vintages that much anymore.]

Yes, shockingly, Figeac and Conseillante “went to the dark side” but I enjoyed the 2014. I bought 2015 and 2016 out of curiosity, but I have not tried them. But I did not do is buy lots of them like I did in 2014 and earlier vintages.

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Lovely event by Panos.

I can’t speak to the change, but I’ve also read the speculation, esp given Rolland… Maybe it coincided with T Manancourt’s passing and the capital expenditure associated with their new cellars? Maybe a gripe as to their perceived status and terroir vs the other prestige St Emillion who get the points and the big bucks? Again, only speculating…

My most recent owned vintage is a few bottles of the 2012, but I have not opened any. Would welcome a redux of that vertical with some newer vintages sprinkled in!

I would love to backfill 98s! I recall passing up on them at $65 back in like 2010. Ouch.

Here are some relevant links on the discourse:

fwiw William Kelley’s posts in the first link are super valuable/informative/thoughtful.

yes, the 1998 was also my favorite that night