That’s one of my favorite Cru Bourgeoise / Petit Chateaux between its Napoleonic affiliation / Scandi linkage; I try to buy current releases when readily available. I think I had the 89 at age 10 to 12 or so and as I recall was leafy / herbal / tertiary. It’s not in the same league as the 89 Pichon Lalande, but the wines of that era were generally good.
I have not listened to it yet, but there is a podcast with M. Lencquesaing (ownership then) on WineTalks with PaulK, for those interested.
Cool, and thank you for the insight into why/how the CCs work for you this way. For trading-in Bordeaux in place of these CCs, I’d suggest Senjac and Cantemerle.
AT Bistro in Preston Center has a very solid wine list
I have come to the same conclusion recently especially compared to Napa… I have purchased many Bordeaux 100pt wines sub $200 and can find a myriad of back vintages at reasonable prices, whereas it seems like every single vineyard Napa cab these days is $200+, and from what I have heard anything that has Beckstoffer on it contractually has to be sold at $300+. I havent had much malbec/ mendoza over the past few years but would think there is some serious QPR there especially with the Argentinian peso trading where it is.
I’ve not spent much time in Porto but I for restaurants I would highly recommend the restaurant at the Yeatman hotel. In terms of wine recommendations the list is very long but I will recommend a few. From Alentejo you won’t go wrong with Mouchau or Fita Preta. The Dao is a favorite region for me. There look for brancos made with Encruzado as well as elegant tintos. Wines by Nuno Mira do O are outstanding as are the ones produced by Carlos Lucas, Quinta Dos Carvalhais, Quinta Da Pellada, and Textura (especially Pura). From Bairrada the tintos made from Baga can be outstanding. There you might look for Quinta Das Bageiras, Casa De Saima and Luis Pato. Have a nice visit!
It’s not bad at all, quite silky in style although not one of the best CBs. It was sold in 2012. I know they started doing machine harvesting a few years back so probably not a good sign as to the quality of recent vintages. I’m guessing that the 89 is a bit tired by now.
I am a big fan of the Cantemerle’s I’ve had, and I think I grabbed a Senejac last time I was at McArthur’s/Bassins, but this is a great reminder that I actually need both of those! glad to hear I was on the right track with those ones! any others you particularly like in a similar vein to those two?
In the same style, at the same price … ehhhhh …
Cantemerle’s second wine is a good QPR, imo. Pichon Lalande’s second wine can be truly excellent, but now we’re at or above $50 with that one, usually.
Not to forget La Louviere blanc ( rouge is also good)
Was this EP pricing or a current deal!?
I had a few bottles of the Bernadotte 2016, my note from this Feb:
Cassis and some dark chocolate on the nose and palate. Notes of plum and smoke. Some bramble, black cherry. Tannins mostly integrated, nice acidity, 13.5%. For under $20, a very good, if basic Bordeaux.
I’ve spent about 30 minutes on this thread and have learned 2 things.
FIRST “I like what I eat”. Someone who eats mostly vegetarian/ white meat/sea food would probably not have the same opinion of red wines as a committed red meat carnivore. So their definition of Q is unlikely to overlap.
SECOND, and probably more important, think about the definition of P.
A PQR for someone with a 8 figure annual income is likely to have a different definition of PR than someone with a 5 figure income; to say nothing of related expenses like funding college tuition and other obligations.
I’m sure we have some of both on WB but they are talking like it’s a level playing field.
honestly, I guess I’ve always imagined the P comes into play far less in what’s considered a PQR wine than what’s considered a splurge wine (or a wine disappointing for the price too I guess). I think you can always say a wine over performs compared to other wines in its price range. but now that you mention it, I suppose you’re correct as well: when there is less free money its probably much easier to be disappointed by a $100 wine that doesnt blow you away, vs someone making 8 figures where that may be the cheapest wine they open!
speaking of QPRs (or lack thereof, depending), I’m curious which chateau people think makes the best second wine?
Dame de Montrose, Pichon Lalande Reserve and Alter Ego are the three that I buy if I can get them at a good price. But of those, Dame would be my favorite.
+1. The other 2nd I really like is forts de latour, if someone else is pouring. But it’s not great QPR and I wouldn’t generally buy it myself.
interesting to see Alter Ego on here! I feel like Palmer doesn’t get a lot of love on the board typically. Glad to see others agree with my liking Dame de Montrose though: have typically enjoyed those when I get to try them.
Another vote here for DdM as the best second wine.
I haven’t tried many second wines, but isn’t the typical advice that the best QPR is often a first wine at a better price point rather than a second wine from a more premium Chateau? I know some have said you’re missing out on some great wine if you completely ignore second wines, but it seems you are also ignoring some of the best values if you are just sorting through second wines.
I usually find hard and fast rules really hard to apply in the world of wine. Except this one - producer, producer, producer. Really good Bordeaux producers (including those owning no classified estates) usually make good first wines, good second wines, good wines from lesser sited or lesser well-known estates, etc.