Hi Ron,
Good question about the drinking window. My answer would be nearly as useful as Marcus’ answer, but not quite as funny ![[welldone.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/fc9709a841aa9379fd892a9cf0b535b05f473b86.gif "[welldone.gif]"){kind=small}
All I can say is at last check, about 2 months ago, it was still complex, sparkling and easy to drink.
I’ll continue to save a few bottles for you…can’t believe our paths haven’t (physically) crossed in two years. What’s up with that? And don’t worry about the cost; I’ll just add it on to your next prostate exam. 
Based on praise in this thread, I just dipped my toes a little more by buying some Kelley Fox pinots.
Do you have an avenue for the Walter Scott Temperance?
Drinking a '15 WS La Combe Vert, their entry level WV PN which I opened 3 nights ago. It started out with as fairly medium body and fruit wine, but has morphed into a more reserved, acid driven wine. Not terribly complex, but very nice and enjoyable. I may have to drag myself upmarket for some of the better stuff. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
I just grabbed a mixed case of ‘16s that will haunt me in the cellar for several months. The entry levels wines I’ve had (CV and Cuvée Ruth) were fantastic, and I feel like ‘16 will be a strong vintage, so I dipped an aggressive toe in on a few X Novo’s and SV pinots. Not sure when it’ll be safe to break into a couple.
Anyone have a favorite Walter Scott SV pinot? I picked up three each of the Sojourner, Dubay and Seven Springs.
Just poured these this week for some customers… don’t touch the 7 springs, it needs a ton of time… Sojourner is showing really well and can’t comment on dubay since munching on the fruit during harvest.
I will say a coravin does these wines good or if you are going to try, they need three days being open to really show their stuff.
Well - we are headed to Oregon end of May and are going to hit about 6 wineries in a couple days. We heard such good things about Walter Scott on this board that we decided to contact them about a visit. I guess their wine tasting/tour terms have changed since some of my friends visited last summer.
They were very excited to receive us, but I found it a bit unusual that instead of paying a tasting fee, they insisted that we purchase 3 bottles of wine per person to cover the cost of the tasting. I actually see this as a tasting fee which is fine - after all, it is wise to cover the cost of expenses for visits, especially for small operations which do not have the economies of scale of the much larger wine businesses and may or may not have another appointment in the day to share these bottles with as well. Of course, I think many wineries will use bottles over the course of an entire day or two but maybe not always.
However, I had to decline the visit. If it was 3 bottles for two of us, then maybe okay. But, there are four of us going to Willamette and W2, and to stop at this winery would require us to purchase an entire case of wine (4 x 3). At $50 per bottle that would be $600. For that much, we could go out to dinner in Portland and purchase a couple bottles at 2x markup. This left a bit of a bad taste for me. I was jazzed about trying and possibly buying - I usually buy if I like the wines - that is why I have well over 1000 bottles in my cellar. Now I am very iffy about getting near this place. I am not P-offed at all, just weird they want (a lot of) my money first without me ever having tasted their wine before, and the amount for the 4 of us in somewhat obscene. Lots of other good wineries in Willamette (of which some I am a member).
Oh well, a friend of mine will be sharing a bottle of theirs with me this coming weekend. I just hope the bad taste in my mouth is gone before I try to taste their wine. Am I wrong?
I’ve visited WS many times, but have not heard of this requirement so may be new. Can’t say you are wrong, but not sure why this would leave a bad taste. You are choosing not to go based on the visitation terms. Fair enough. IMO that should not color your view of their wines if/when you try them.
As someone who really enjoys their wines, I would not have a problem buying a case if I were in your shoes, but can relate to hesitancy if you have not tried/aren’t sure if they are in your wheelhouse. For me, they are a top 3 Chardonnay producer in the WV and the Pinots are really good as well.
Thanks, Scott - I guess the bad taste is related to the fact I wanted to visit them (never having tried them) because so many folks (such as you) declared them to produce great wines, and then my own principles about the costs of a tasting prohibit me from wanting to pay that much to taste them for the first time. It is a very natural reaction but as you point out it is really my problem. I probably would have purchased at least six bottles if I like them, but what if they were not in my wheelhouse? I guess wine tasting is becoming a bit like horse racing - you don’t win if you don’t bet.
I’m planning a similar trip at the end of June and got the same message from Walter Scott. I also got it from Big Table Farm (case commitment for up to 4 people) and saw similar policies on other winery’s websites. I totally understand why wineries need to do this. Their time is limited and valuable. For me, it’s more of a logistical problem. First of all, everything we purchase we need to get back to the east coast at the end of our trip. Also, it will frequently just be my wife and me and she’s not likely to taste. So I wouldn’t be able to spread the, for example, case purchase commitment across four people. And I have limited experience with BTF and no experience with WS. I’m sure the wines are lovely and worth purchasing but it’s just hard to make that sort of commitment before tasting. Still looking forward to an awesome trip!
Joe S - I hope you’ll give us an update after your May trip.
Second this recommendation.
I’m going to add myself as one more who was put off by the three-bottle per person requirement to taste. The issue for me was storage during my visit and shipping. Before I’ve even tasted the wines, I would have had to decide if we’re going to cart a full case of them with us for the rest of the day while we visit elsewhere (something we were certainly not going to want to do on even a mildly warm day) or agree (again, before ever having tasted it) to not only buy a case of the wine but pay to have the winery ship it.
I do understand that wineries need to cover costs, which is why I’m happy to pay a tasting fee. If I like their wines at the tasting, I’m very likely to either (a) join their club if they have one, or (b) buy a case on the spot and have them ship it.
In short, I just didn’t like that all of the “risk” was put on me as a potential customer. Hey, I’m making an investment, too, by choosing to travel to the winery among the many choices I have to experiment beyond what I normally buy.
Interesting discussion about requirements for booking a tasting. Personally have no problem with a winery setting some expectation for a visit and then I can decide what works for me. I’m sure there is a challenge in strategizing around those decisions relative to attracting new customers, particularly for new/small producers. Once the brand becomes successful I’m sure the calculus changes again. For Walter Scott, it is very small operation and they have become established and well recognized since opening doors 10 years ago. I don’t begrudge the change as for them (and other small producers) as there is a cost (time and $$) in hosting a few visitors a day.
For me, I’d rather pay a tasting fee than be obligated to purchase like some others here have said. Best policies have a fee that is waived with a minimum purchase in my opinion.
I note that on the Walter Scott web site today is the below message for a visit. Wonder whether that is now outdated or now updated?
“Given the demand for our limited appointments, our tasting fee is $50 per person, waived with a 12-bottle case purchase per couple.”
Thank you all for your feed back and thoughtful perspective. I appreciate having an opportunity to have this discussion within this community of highly engaged consumers and many small producers who share similar challenges to us. The decision of how to structure tasting fees is one of the most difficult marketing decisions we make each year. Walking the fine line of valuing our very limited time and remain the welcoming winery that we strive to be. It is HARD.
To give some perspective, Walter Scott is primarily a two person team, my Husband Ken Pahlow and I producing 6500 cases a year. We have no assistant winemaker and no tasting room staff. We do every ounce of work in the cellar, pack every shipment, write every thank you card and are committed to host every appointment and represent our wines and share our story. We are honored to be a part of this industry and community and have a chance to share it with guests.
When Walter Scott began we never charged for tasting fees - no one knew who we were! Appointments were with people who had researched us, and almost everyone bought some wine, even if it wasn’t a lot. As time went on and we received some nice press and other wineries became aware of our wines and started recommending people we started receiving more and more requests (AMAZING!!). But with that, the demographic of the visitors changed as well. Tour companies began making us regular stop on their entertainment tours and we had more and more appointments where we would sell very little or even no wine to guests who were just out to have fun.
Every time we host an appointment, we have to stop topping, or blending, or processing orders to open wine and give 100% to every group who visits. Having people say "these wines are amazing, thank you for the great tasting!” was nice, but not sustainable.
Last year we implemented a policy of a $25.00 tasting fee refundable with a 6 bottle purchase. It helped, but more and more, a $25 tasting fee was normal and we still saw a good percentage of people that were just out wine tasting and had been recommended to us by a tasting room employee or a larger wineries who did not understand the cost of time we give to host groups. Wineries like Walter Scott, Big Table Farm, Vincent, or Goodfellow survive by selling wine. We all built our wineries from nothing and do all of the work in the cellar, personally travel for marketing trips and host all of our tasting appointments ourselves. We have to maximize our time to thrive.
We could host appointments 7 days a week, 3 times a day. We also have to run the winery, a daughter to raise, and need a sense of Balance. We work 6 days a week and host every group unless we are out of town (which is rare). Why we don’t hire someone? Two reasons. First, we dream of owning our own land and to make that happen we need to keep our costs down and prepare for the time when the right piece of land come available. Second, we don’t want someone else representing our wines and telling our story. We want to taste with you and go down a rabbit hole on reduction or micro climate between two vineyards or lees selection in Chardonnay or why we believe the Eola-Amity Hills are AMAZING. This is our commitment to our guests and our wines.
This year we decided to try something new. We offer a unique, personal experience including tasting 5 or 6 wines and learning about the region from a hands on perspective. People know that they are tasting with Ken or I and that it is our time and knowledge that they were getting. We gently asked that if they were coming to the winery, that they do intend to purchase wine, and that we are not just a stop or a casual visit. It was hard because we were not sure how we felt about it either, but we tried this approached.
Based on feedback from this community and others, we believe we need to revert back to a tasting fee.
We are about 2 months away from being sold out of our 2016 wines. Once those are gone we will offer visitors Barrel Samples of our 2017 wines and we are not comfortable requiring a purchase on Futures. Scott made a great point in his response that we have been thinking about. While he might comfortable with making a purchase commitment, he was not comfortable asking his friends to make that commitment. This was a fair concern.
So we have been talking about going back to a tasting fee. $25.00 did not work. We have done considerable research into tasting fees. In our area they begin at $20 for a general tasting room experience to $75 and more for winemaker tasting experiences like we offer. We are thinking that $50.00 is where we feel comfortable.
I would love to hear your thoughts, and welcome the other wineries to chime in with their own experiences.
Erica Landon
Walter Scott Wines
Erica – Thank you for your post. Direct access to winery owners and their perspective is one of the great values of this board. Reading through this thread for the first time, today, I was surprised when I read Joe S.'s post, regarding a purchase requirement. Like Scott, I would have no problem with buying a case of Walter Scott wines. In fact, my problem is limiting it to a case! However, in all fairness, if that had been the requirement years ago, my ability to engage would have been significantly restricted. And I would think twice – maybe three times – if that was the requirement to taste at a winery that I had never visited before.
It is perfectly reasonable (at least IMHO) to focus your valuable time on potential customers who are actually interested in buying your product. Virtually every business deals with the very same issue. I’ve always thought that a tasting fee, refundable, at least in part, against purchase is equitable. Of course, the winery needs to determine the fee and the level of purchase necessary for refund of the fee, in accordance with their business needs/objectives.
You guys are doing a great job! I can’t wait to taste the '17’s this summer.
Erica,
My wife and I visited you last September and we had a great time. The tasting was fantastic. My wine arrived safely and soundly including those magnums of the 2016 Bunker Hill Chardonnay. Whatever you are doing, keep doing it. And tell Lucy hello for us. You couldn’t have a better greeter.
Having just written a check for $18000 for labels this morning, this may not be the time for me to be running my mouth on this topic, but…
There needs to be a distinction between a “tasting fee”, which is, as advertised, a payment for dropping by a winery and tasting salable wines.
And “an appointment”. Which is a more like talking to the designer of the sports car you are interested in buying and less like talking to the salesperson on the lot.
Erica covered a lot of ground regarding the conundrum small wineries have in being authentic to visitors and retaining some semblance of balance in our lives, or at least in the cellar.
…and it also makes sense that savvy consumers and in particular Berserkers would want to sample the wines before committing to purchasing(having a full cellar myself, I really do understand that it may be necessary to ward off experimental purchases).
…but, perhaps some transparency. Erica speaks of a $50 tasting fee per person. I am pretty sure that to her, charging a $50 fee seems high but necessary.
To me, a $50 tasting fee is a waste of my time and my wines. I usually open 8 bottles of wine for each appointment, unless I am doubled up and I don’t have tine for more than two per day. Wholesale value of those wines, which I can definitely sell them at, is around $180-200. If I spend an hour in an appointment-and I enjoy doing them and meeting people-well, my attorney charges me $300/hour and has practiced law half as long as I have been obsessively focused on making Pinot Noir. My electrician charges me $135/hour, my mechanic is $90(forklift mechanic is $120), and my accountant is $200.
Joe and three friends would be costing me, say $300 in wine and time, just to drop by. Meaning that I am grossing $300 on the case they walk away with($25/btl).
So I don’t charge a tasting fee. It’s not worth it. I see people, and definitely prioritize Berserkers, because it’s my belief that what is here is so special that they’re going to come and visit and not only buy wine but call or email me, after opening a bottle 2-3 years later, and have me ship them another 6-pack. (Thanks Paul!) or talk about their experience with my wines to friends, colleagues, and post things occasionally on the interwebs(thanks to many WBers!)
I do appointments because I am a wine nerd through and through and I love sharing what I do and what I see and have learned with other people who are also intrigued and passionate about terroir, and the aspects of place that change a bottle of wine from a beverage to an experience.
…but I do need to have a marker of whether the time I spend in appointments is justifiable from a business perspective andthe perspective of a man with two kids to raise and care for. And that marker tends to be whether people buy wine or not(and I just file cost of opening 8 bottles as “outreach”).
No offense Joe, but it seems to me that the “bad taste” was you getting stuck with having to “cover” the 3 bottle fee for your two less wine oriented friends? I can understand that, but I suspect that if you went to Le Bernadin with two non foodie friends, Eric Ripert would still charge the prixe fixe for the table. And please don’t suggest that Walter Scott isn’t every bit as special as Le Bernadin. They are. Just look around the Oregon threads again and see how many GREAT comments about their wines are here.
Your friends no doubt would gain a lovely experience at Walter Scott, but perhaps the solution would be to sell them on the fact that Walter Scott is one of the very best wineries in one of the best wine producing regions in the world(yes, I am a homer) and their wines are sought after and beautiful. Buying three bottles to get a view into Temperance Hill, Seven Springs, Sojourner, and Ex Novo. Four of the greatest sites in Oregon, with elevage from two ofthe smartest, most-talented, most dedicated, and god-awful hardworking people I have ever met is a cheap entrance fee. Your friends just need to know that you are taking them to the winery equivalent of Renoir’s house and not a print shop.
…the bad taste…is that you didn’t go.
Here are Dan and Chas doing a tasting with Ken and Erica on their Wine Is Serious Business podcast. It’s a classic! Wine Is Serious Business - Wine Is Serious Business 342: 2015 Single Vineyard Wines From ... | Facebook | By Wine Is Serious Business | Wine Is Serious Business 342: 2015 Single Vineyard Wines From Walter Scott Ken and Erica have been getting a lot of attention over the past few years...
I think I just saw another one on Matello Fool’s Journey I need to watch. There are some outstanding Syrah wines being made in the valley for those liking OR PN more than the fruit forward wines made else where.
I could not locate the Matello video, but here’s Marcus on his wines. Wine Is Serious Business 302: Pinot Noir From Goodfellow Famil... | When we went out to visit Marcus for Episode 274, he offered to discuss some recent Pinot Noir releases as well. We couldn’t refuse, but said that this... | By Wine Is Serious Business | Facebook
Hi Marcus and Erica,
I appreciate and understand what you are saying. I appreciate the fact that your small operations might be stretched thin from a personnel perspective as well as your desire or need to cover your costs of tastings and tours. Most importantly I would think, you need to do what makes sense for you and your business.
I understand if I visited I might be talking to the designers of the sports car (wine) about how the car (wine) was made, how it feels, etc. But should I buy the car first and test drive it second? Many on this site extoll the virtues of WS and Goodfellow wines as well as the ability of their winemakers, possibly for great reasons - I contend the winemaker’s ability is not in question at all. I contend that I have never sampled the winemakers ability, and possibly not even the chardonnay or pinot noir of the specific region where this winery grows grapes. Should I take it on faith and buy a case? I would say I would much rather pay a tasting/tour fee which may or may not even be refunded upon purchase. I have done this many times in other areas of the world including Napa, Champagne, Tuscany, Piemonte, etc.
Yes - I am a Berserker which means I, like many other Berserkers, probably have more wine that I have room to store (very true). With some of my lesser wines in the house at room temp because all of my fridges and lockers are full, should I be anxious to mandatorily purchase a case of wine just to get a tasting with my wife and friends, or should I avoid the inventory and storage problem altogether by not going/tasting at all? You are correct, it is my loss. But I also contend it is also the winemaker’s loss unless there is so much demand for his/her wine that the wine prices could be doubled or even tripled without affecting volume sales. If a wine is that good, then why would said winemaker be doing tastings and tours at all? Shut the doors, sell only to the list, setup tastings on cruise ships, yada yada. But that is not my point - I am exploring new regions and winemakers, have available credit on my plastic, and might be interested in dragging or shipping some wine home if I like it, but not until I know that I like it.
Alas - I hope we are not at an impasse! Cheers!
Joe, may I ask what you do for a living?