CHAMBOLLE-MUSIGNY 1er Cru question

Based on my experiences with the old man’s Charmes and generic 1er cru, I’d certainly recommend those. I’d still like to hear from anyone who has had experience with Bertheau’s wines from both the old and the new regime…how has the youngster changed the style, assuming he has?

I had a 2006 recently that was so pretty. The nose was just full of flowers and light spice. Could smell it for days. The older wines from early 90’s, i’ve had the BM. I didn’t think their style is that different. Just well balanced wines. I really should buy more :X

Both Cras and Varoilles from Barthod have been mentioned–and I certainly wouldn’t disagree–but I think her Fuees and Charmes are just as worthy. Her other crus aren’t that far off either.
I also agree with the 1er Crus of Drouhin and Bertheau. I’ve been trying to buy some of both every vintage recently. What about J.J. Confuron 1er Cru? I often wonder what the vineyard sources are for these “generic” 1er Crus, as they are often as good as many of the named crus. Presumably they are generic only in the sense that they are from such small holdings (except for Vogue) that they need to be combined to produce enough wine for a reasonable cuvée.
Any thoughts?

Bruce

From Chatelots (1/3) and Feusselottes (2/3) - together some 0.45 ha.
Really excellent stuff!

FWIW, had a Lignier Baudes '93 this week. Though you could tell it was from Chambolle, not Morey…it was indeed on the “denser, more structured” side, a la the Roumier Cras…and, also, the Patrice Rion Charmes…

I love all three…so…if they are “denser, more structured” expressions of Chambolle…count me as a fan of that style. (And, I’m more of a Vosne fan anyway…a '93 Rion VR Beaux Monts this week, also, was super…I think that village makes the most “complete” Burgs of the villages…)

I like that style as well, put prefer the style I associated with the M-G Feusselotes, i.e., “lithe, winsome, and feminine,” probably because it’s more unique to Chambolle. I can find denser and more structured wines in Morey, Gevrey, Vosne, and NSG, but you’d be harder pressed to find winning wines made in the other style in those communes.

Agreed, they are very good wines. The Charmes is indeed that -charming- and is often very nice around the 5-10 year mark, but doesn’t really have the structure for aging as long as the Cras and Véroilles. The Fuées is pobably very close to those two in quality, but tends to develop a more robust and gamey character, not unlike Bonnes Mares. As it happens, both the Cras and Véroilles are situated in its direct vicinity as well, but are distinctly different to me. It’s a matter of personal preference, I would say.

Hard to evaluate, but I think
Bertheau Charmes
Barthod Cras
Mugnier Fuees
Roumier Cras
got the most votes, followed by
Mugneret-G Feusselottes and Clavelier Combe d´Orveau
(interesting: no Amoureuses is a winner)

Question: has anybody tasted
Ch-M 1er Cru Les Borniques / Magnien ?

Steve Levenberg reports that it is not dissimilar to Musigny GC - but I never had this 1er Cru.
Usually I´m not a big Magnien fan.

Of the wines I’ve tried:

Mugnier Fuees
Drouhin Amoureuses
Barthod Cras
Barthod Baudes
I like the Roumier village but of course it’s not 1er.

Hmmmmm…only 5, from 5 DIFFERENT producers…
That’s a bit like saying, “take your pick of the most beautiful young women in the world, the top 5”.

In any case:
Barthod Fuees
Bertheau Amoureuses
Roumier Amoureuses
LeMoine Haut Doix (I could say Amoureuses here too)
Perrot Minot Combe d’Orveau Ultra
If I could, i’d list several more…

As to people’s preferences for “lithe, winsome, feminine” vs “denser structured”, I’ve always found that the wines closer to and on the slope are airier and stonier, a reflection of the limestone driven character that Monsieur Millet of DeVogue rhapsodizes about (he often speaks of being able to visually see the limestone in the “fond du lac” of the wine). This nervous core of minerally acidity gives Chambolle its animating power, which along with its charming flesh makes such stunning, complex creatures. The 1er crus on the flats tend to be denser, darker in color, more tannin structure from their clayier soils. Drink a bottle of ‘les Cras’ next to a bottle of ‘Charmes’. Some of Chambolle’s yin and yang. Both beautiful, yet distinctly different. The effects of Terroir in motion!
I too (as a professed rock head) adore the airier stony terroirs. But I wouldn’t turn down hardly anything that says Chambolle on the label…

Beautifully phrased, Robert! Far superior to my “Venus vs. Mars”-like comparison.

I was thinking the same thing - I loved the father’s wines, at least after the late 1980s and I always thought the Bertheau Premier Cru was the best value in chambolle (well, roumier village too until it got expensive). I find the Amoureuses a bit soft compared to the 1er Cru and Charmes. I am not yet convinced by the son’s wines.

Maureen,

The father’s Bonnes Mares was also a great bargain for a GC. I’m assuming your comments re: the Amoureuses vis-a-vis the 1er Cru and Charmes relates to the father’s wines. What is it about the son’s wines that you find unconvincing so far?

Harry

Has anyone seen these 2010s in the market recently? I’ve looked since release in June, found a little Cras by word-of-mouth, zip on wine-searcher, almost none locally. Please send me a PM if so; was able to track down just about everything I wanted in 2010 except these.

Maureen,

I agree with you on BERTHEAU. I would add that the wines sometimes are a bit too light (“feminine” whatever that may mean?) for me. They are of a different nature than say the wines of ROUMIER which are much fuller albeit not lacking in finesse. great stuff

SINCERELY JOHAN

Maybe easier to start with the Vineyard and Producer, separately and then figure out the producer for the vineyard?

Vineyard For me
Amoureuses
Cras
Fuees
Combe d’Orveau
For the 5th, I could be talked into a lot, but I’ll go for Charmes.

Producer For me.
Roumier
Mugnier
Barthod
Clavelier
Groffier

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Barthod Fuees
Roumier Cras
Bertheau Charmes
Drouhin Amoureuses
Sigaut Sentiers

Mugnier Fuees for me by a considerable margin; one of the wines that I think despite their price are actually worth the tariff. Then, Roumier’s Cras a clear #2 and Mugneret-Gibourg’s Fuselottes third. After that, probably Bertheau’s Charmes. I’ve had some very good Lignier’s Baudes, though it’s not really my preferred style of Chambolle; I love his Morey cuvees though.

I don’t drink enough Amoureuses from any producer to be able to make a reasonable judgment either way, though I’ve had a couple of really good ones from Drouhin.

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Mugnier AMOUREUSES, VOGÜE AMOUREUSES, ROUMIER AMOUREUSES, HUDELOT-BAILLET CHARMES, ROUMIER CRAS, HUDELOT-BAILLET CRAS, MUGNIER FUEES, BARTHOD CRAS, BARTHOD FUEES, BARRTHOD VEROILLES not always in that order but let’s say “MOST OF THE TIME” (to quote the great BOB DYLAN)followed by BERTEAU AMOUREUSES and BERTEAU CHARMES

SINCERELY JOHAN