Hello deep end! The water (and the wine) are great!!
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Honest question - because no, I don’t troll this space . . .
But what are production numbers like on these current releases vs most of what dN releases were back in the day?
Cheers
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I do not know the early dN numbers, but Cam X releases have been from 100 to 700+ cases
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You can be the first to say here that the 2023 vintage does not meet the much-hyped expectations.
Hey Larry. Fair question. That I’d love your input on. I’d guess that certain lots of DN had over a thousand cases. (dN 17 and 240 come to mind as ones that seemed to last for forever and not sell out despite popularity and great price). It seems to be that 4 consecutive years of above average harvest (maybe 22 was not above average but not a waste either) and dropping demand has let to an oversupply event that is opening the door for cam to start the new venture. Are you implying that there shouldn’t be 700 cases of $130/bottle production available. (I ask bc i assume you have your finger on the pulse of the market. ).
Ps. I never assume contrarian view are maliciously so.
I’m of a similar mind.
My only prior experience with any of these was a taste of the 2008 Cameron Hughes Lot 197 Merlot back in 2011, which ended up in one of our blind tastings. It was alright. These days my wife blows through a lot of decent but inexpensive wines after her golf leagues. I see these fitting in that role in our cellar, and if a few bottles of each get lost in the cellar for a few years, that will be a fun experiment.
I don’t give a damn what the stated value is- I just want it to drink well for what I am paying (Last Bottle or WTSO retail numbers viewed similarly). I’m in for lots 5, 15 and 17 which will be $13.50 to $18, delivered, and all I need them to do is drink like $13 to $18 bottles. Anything better than that is just gravy, and it sounds like that should be a given.
I’m looking forward to getting these in-house this fall and dipping into the stash this winter once they’ve settled down.
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I’m trying to remember if 197 was one of the wines from the Havens buyout. i don’t think it was. Thinking back to CH back then, 200 is one of the only ones that I think are comparable to what dN was selling. As stated above, I have no idea how these will be drinking, but if they don’t taste like they should have cost twice what you paid for them you should be pissed. The one caveat is that I don’t think many of these will drink well young, so you may end up in a spot where you don’t have the patience to age wine that you think of as a daily drinker. I hope you can be patient. There are scores of folks on this board that will quickly tell you they drank their 2018’s way too early. It was pretty funny at the time when someone would post the question of how long they should wait to open something get told 3 years and then post the same question six months later. 2023 was a monster vintage, you bought lots that should show better early, but if you want them to settle down, waiting for this winter ain’t gonna do it.
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I had a similar approach in 2020 with very limited “age worthy wine experience.” I now do have 50-75 “age worthy wines that are not dn. And a bunch of dn which provides a cheap contrast to the journey. In most cases I’ve not found a huge difference on my palate between dn and the 50-150 non dn options that I break out…as long as dn has aged. My suggestion is not to entirely judge reigns away. Bc most did need 2-3 yrs to ar least start be enjoyable without a decant…long decants help a lot in the first several yrs.
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I left the trade floor in 2007, but I always enjoy your bringing a trader energy to wine discussion.
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I need to tap out. I only have room for 3-4 cases and already have 10 on order. I asked for summer hold hoping I could make some room in the storage via copious consumption but this is getting ridiculous. 
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I have become extremely selective with my Garagiste buys. If you don’t have a taste in wine already, they make sense to a degree for learning purposes.
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Bookmark this - let’s circle back after labor day how many more cases you buy. 
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I’ve seen people predict extremely short drinking windows here. Many times I’ve seen someone say “this should drink well for the next couple of years”, when I think their window probably is more like 15-20 more years easy.
A good 2023 probably will be good until 2050 without any issues. I’m drinking some 2007 Napa Cabs right now that are just about to enter the “prime” window of some secondary development, while retaining the Napa fruit. I don’t see why many of the dN/CX wines wouldn’t do the same.
The problem I have is that I still think of many of them as cellar defenders. I’ll let the $150 bottles sleep while gulping down cases and cases of dN. I hope my overbuying tendencies will still leave me with a bunch of mature dN.
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Was CH lot 200 considered to be one of the better CH wines? I don’t remember being too excited with it but I also didn’t age it much.
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I have a couple 200s and was gonna pop one open soon.
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Yes
The 000 series were supposed to be the premier wines. I had 200 and 300. They had a different color label IIRC
Yep, that’s for sure.
For my favorite value metric, I enjoy using pre-1965 quarters, i.e. 25 cents (90% silver/real money) AG.
25 cents of real money = roughly $USD $8 fiat currency
50 cent = $16 fiat.
By my measure, Our very fancy booze is now often less than 50 cents/bottle.
Good values however you measure it?
I believe that you are correct.
How many years have you lived on the planet Earth?
Checking your age, are you 21??
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I am 21, with 21 years of experience! 
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I know 200 was controversial at the time. I think it came around. Wasn’t the best, but solid.
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