Calling All European Wine Berserkers: Help Us Bring BerserkerDay Across the Pond!

WINE TALK
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So here’s the deal… Wine Berserkers is going GLOBAL, people! We’ve got amazing members popping up all over Europe and beyond, bringing their incredible wine knowledge and passion to our little corner of the internet. The discussions? Chef’s kiss

But here’s what’s driving me absolutely nuts: BerserkerDay is still stuck in the US! You know how much fun we have with BerserkerDay here - the insane allocations, the group buying madness, the “OMG did we really just score THAT bottle?!” moments. Our European Berserkers are watching from the sidelines going “Cool story, Todd, but what about us?!”

I want to bring BerserkerDay to Europe SO BAD, but honestly? The regulatory maze over there is making my head spin! We’ve got EU wine laws that change faster than my kids’ moods, shipping rules that seem designed by people who hate wine, every country doing their own thing (shocking, I know!), and producers who are amazing at making wine but terrible at e-commerce.

European Berserkers, I’m looking at YOU! I need your collective genius to figure this out. Have you seen anyone crack this code? Know a wine lawyer who doesn’t charge Ferrari prices? Got a cousin who ships wine across borders without breaking seventeen laws? Seriously, ANY leads would be amazing - wine clubs that actually work across multiple EU countries, legal eagles who know wine commerce inside and out, creative workarounds that don’t involve smuggling (probably), or even just pointing me toward the right people to bother with questions! I’ve already tapped into @Otto_Forsberg’s expertise on this, but unfortunately it seems like there are more hurdles than potential positive options.

Picture it: BerserkerDay Europe! Same insane energy, same incredible wines, same “how did Todd talk us into buying ANOTHER case?” moments - but for our European crew! I refuse to believe this is impossible. If we can figure out how to get 500 Berserkers to agree on anything (spoiler: we can’t), we can figure out European wine distribution!

Who’s got ideas? Who knows people? Who wants to help make this beautiful chaos happen?! Let’s do this thing!

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Todd,

if you source from inside the EU there is not much headache, legally, sending things to other EU countries, importing from US to EU is quite another bag of worms tho.

Lawyer-wise a quick check brings up Wine Imports: 8 things you need to know » O&W Rechtsanwaltsgesellschaft mbH - probably worth a read.

I have been doing some decades of european / EU e-commerce / business but not in the wine trade (IT area for me) so could advice on the general idea but not wine specific.

Let me know if you want to chat some on this

Klaus

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Thanks, Klaus.

I anticipate issues EU to US, I’m focusing on EU purchases/shipments within EU, just like how BerserkerDay currently works within the US. If it’s not much headache, doesn’t it at least require the winery to have DTC (direct-to-consumer) e-commerce? From what I’ve heard, there are few of those.

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Todd,

you are correct, few wineries here do DTC, sales are mostly through distribution (i.e Alpina) or ecommerce (i.e. Lobenberg, C&D, vino.com, Hawesko, vivino, decantolo, you name it, there are plenty of ecommerce shops trading in wine / alkoholics.

So my best guess would be to approach an existing guy with the needed infrastructure and work something out from there. There are guys doing only the logistics, that could be an option as well actually.

i.e. Wine & Spirits Logistics | FIEGE Logistics is doing all the warehousing and logistic/shipments for the mentioned Lobenberg https://www.gute-weine.de/

One of the smaller ecommerce guys could be willing to work with you on this as well, positives for him could well be the exposure, a cut, whatever you could work out.

Klaus

(added the english link, not related to any of these guys)

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I think this is essential, as the core magic of BerserkerDay is the deals obtained DIRECT from producers, that’s a unique space in the online marketplace for wine. Where would I find one of these smaller ecommerce guys/?

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just dumping some names I bought from

https://www.kierdorfwein.de/

https://weinhandlung-drexler.de/

https://weinweber.de/

https://vinigrandi.de/

leaving out the larger / multinational ones, i.e. Moevenpick, Hawesko, Vivino, vino, decantolo, Vinatis

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Many European producers (those discussed here) already have significant private client lists, and many are moving more in that direction.

Selling within the EU is very simple.

Our shop ships to all EU countries.

Outside of the EU is tricky.

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I understood that now we’re trying to envision a European BD for Europeans, not a trans-Atlantic thing.

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Yes. So I don’t see the concerns about logistics really.

Plenty of other challenges though.

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Can’t wait to see that DRC EBD17 deal! :smiley:

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Excellent idea Todd! Well not for my cellar reduction though.

Option 1: The absolut easiest route would be to only focus on wineries that do DTC. Which sadly would exclude many wineries, however those without that setup, could maybe cooperate with one of their retailers (giving them goodwill and exposure in return), who has the setup and structure in place to export within EU. Any UK WBs are probably easiest (?) served via a local partner if that’s an option.

Option 2: Using one retail/distributor for everything, or one from every country is very complicated and difficult with existing distribution representation and other practical considerations. Think this is a dead end with all the complexity that would come with it….

Not a showstopper but a few other considerations:

  • I’m not sure but the US BD is probably a lot more of a bargain due to the 3T system…
  • Could happen that many in Europe have quite good access and at very competitive prices compared to what the situation would be with above in mind.
  • Transport cost are key, usually the most efficient is 12 or 18 bottles. Less and discounts might not seem that meaningful.
  • non wine products is much easier, every supplier should be able to mange sales across EU.

If something else comes up I’ll let you know, but I would only focus on option 1. Perhaps some wineries within the same region can perhaps find a way to help each other but better to let them work that out.

Before reaching out to wineries I think it would be a helpful to get a feeling of how many in Europe and from which countries are interested. If only the Finnish chaps are thirsty and no DTC delivers there… It will give a better idea about the scale.

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Please do expand on this

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Well, the most interesting producers won’t be interested in selling to new customers or discounting.

On the whole. They will already be selling out.

Though I imagine this is somewhat the same in the US. However we are fewer buyers in Europe.

Other challenges include the more practical logistics. Whilst in theory a producer who is only doing B2B can easily do B2C that’s a lot of wine to put in shipping boxes that they don’t currently buy. It’s a courier account to set up that’s hard to get preemptive discounts on. It means registering for a slightly different VAT scheme to pay the foreign VAT, this is not actually onerous but is off putting. It’s a credit card processor to sign up to, it’s a website to build or modify. Then there’s pricing because a lot of B2C is priced at the same level as the B2B sell to the public.

A lot of French wine producers use a few agents for their French market to avoid even selling direct to shops and restaurants.

So ‘your job’ is to convince them, many of which don’t speak English and haven’t heard of wine berserkers.

Happy to help where I can!

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Clearly, as here, the producers who sell out won’t need/want this…but it’s about finding the small producers, the gems that are otherwise undiscovered. That’s where BerserkerDay shines. That would be my hope, just quite difficult for me, on this side of the pond, to do so.

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Klaus,

I am puzzled by this statement.

The import company I sold currently works with 21 French Estate producers. Every single one of them sells directly to consumers, through tasting rooms, stores or on line.

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In France, many wineries sell direct to consumer. There are expos that happen all the time with hundreds if not thousands of wineries. The trick, of course, is to get the good ones.

The other tricky thing, though, is that many of these do not have logistics for direct shipments, which is why they do it at expos. But there are options.

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Not Klaus but in the local market, yes you are correct. For delivery across Europe it get more complicated. Having the right VAT collected and paid, excises duty in some markets.

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Maybe a suitable approach could be to develop a relationship with a distribution partner first, and have them handle the logistics for the individual wineries?

I am sure a big company like Hillebrand or similar has the expertise to consolidate and distribute shipments for various wineries and to navigate the various tax/regulation requirements.

https://eshipping.hillebrandgori.com/eshipping-shipment-wine-european-consumers-fiscal-representation/

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I was going to suggest Todd just smuggle them into Europe in his rectum, but then they’d just smell like European wines, so what’s the point?

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Dan, Mikael, Tim, yes of course, but selling direct in a tasting room or locally for drive-by customers is not what I consider DTC - I was looking at it from an ecommerce POV - especially in regards to the discussion at hand where we are talking about at least EU or even better european wide business / logistics. But this is splitting hair.

And for sure there are some wineries who have all the ecommerce and eu logistics challenges already covered but I would guestimate them to be in the <1% range, if not lower. As for the tasting room / sales off the winery - thats probably closer to 100% but thats not what will help Todd much to work out a EBD with them.