What is it you guys are fighting about?
I don’t have a wine cellar nor offsite storage. And I don’t have $1000s of bottles of wine. I work a regular job and have 2 teenage daughters. I have never sold or bought a wine via an auction. I’m just a regular Joe.
What I mean by “it’s just wine” is that it Is still wine that is drinkable, although maybe not totally in one’s wheelhouse. To me, “being burned” means buying a bad stock due to some shyster or buying a car that has had the odometer turned back. Or spending big money on some fancy French wine that you find out has been replaced by Welch’s grape juice.
You are certainly entitled to your opinions . But I sure sense a bit of hostility
Congrats, David - at least you are attempting to view thhis through a different lens than your own. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Some folks may be willing to accept the financial risk (yes, appreciation is purely financial), in regards to cellaring a wine which does not have a 100% commitable track record. But then, it’s also their financial risk - it is truly unknown and they are willing to accept it.
Now…I feel we are getting further from the OP’s question, for which I never did see a timeframe mentioned. Therefore, aging may be totally irrelevant. Regardless, i have had the Mt. Eden you mentioned, but may need to seek out the others you mentioned at least for curiosity’s sake.
Any list not including Arcadian is a joke…
TTT
I’ve thought about this question a few times:
Williams-Selyem (Burt Williams Days)
Littorai
Rhys
Rhys
WS
Arcadian
Joseph Swan
Peay
Skewis
From my limited experience.
Neely/Varner
Mount Eden Vineyards
Based on wines I’ve had a good amount of experience with:
Arcadian
Rhys
Copain
Kutch
Ceritas
R-M
FIFY.
For those who don’t already know, David Z. has exceedingly strong opinions about what wine styles he likes and doesn’t like. So if you’ve bought a wine made in a style HE doesn’t like, then by definition you’ve made a poor purchasing decision…
Some folks like Pinot Noir made in a style that really doesn’t come into its own for 5-10 years. Others want something they will enjoy within a few years of release. Only you know what Pinot Noir style works for you, and what $$$ you’re willing to pay for that wine.
Having said that, if I could reliably find wine made in the old Williams Selyem style of the mid-1990’s, I would be quite happy (putting aside the QPR issues). When I’m in the mood to drink aged Pinot Noir, that’s the style to which I tend to gravitate.
Bruce
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Now, I also cannot imagine how anyone has been burned by going long on any Pinot. Even when palates change, the wines were all solid wines, and people pleasers for sure.
I probably buy 200+ bottles of Pinot a year. I’ve bought Copain, Ceritas, Kutch and Litterai in the past. All solid wines.
My current favorites, in order of which I buy the most of are:
Sojourn
Rivers-Marie
Williams Selyem
Rhys
Sea Smoke
Ancillary
Rochioli
Loring
Crawford Family
Kosta Browne/Cirq
Eric Kent
Patine’
And there are many others that we buy occasionally, and also really like, including Poe, Macphail, Holdredge, Sandler, among others.
I really don’t care about what others think of these - we like them!
I haven’t bought an Arcadian wine since Joe went on that rant against Brian Loring and Adam Lee on Grape Radio.
Long time to hold a grudge. Wasn’t that “rant” in 2005?
Any list without Marcassin is a joke.
Marcassin
Kistler
Dumol
Morlet
Peter Michael
In the highly competitive world of CA mailing list wines there are few second chances.
Chris, for your second location, I recommend that you buy red Burgundy. Seriously. You will hedge against palate shift (which is almost certain to occur) and if you select even decently the wines will likely appreciate in value. If you were to do this, I would be willing to wager where your preferences lie in the future.
Thanks.
More for me…
TTT
My answer may not earn me any WB street cred, but I love CIRQ and Kosta Browne. I do not care about flavor of the month, nor resale value - I buy because I really enjoy drinking them.
And William, at the end of the day, isn’t that why most of us really DO purchase wines? 
This simple statement oftentimes seems to get lost in the equation here - too often, folks are ‘worried’ that they’re not being ‘board correct’ or whatever you want to call it. To me, that’s like going to some outrageously priced restaurant, disliking the food, but ‘hailing’ it as ‘awesome’ because that’s what you’re supposed to do . . .
Kudos to you - and hopefully we’ll break bread together one of these days.
Cheers!
Considering that the vast majority of wine geeks aren’t on the Marcassin list and can’t get on the list at the moment even if they wanted, the omission of
Marcassin is hardly a joke.
Bruce
It is not quite that easy. The OP says: “I listed producers from which I have enjoyed, but haven’t had enough comparison opportunities to compare side by side to form my own independent preferences.” Not only is he not certain what his preferences will be in the future, he is not even sure what they are now. As I think about it, perhaps the best advice is to stop buying and start drinking more, and get off the mailing lists. There is an ocean of great wine out there not sold via a mailing list. Further as a palate shift example, I had a customer in my warehouse last weekend buying Burgundy who has 5,000 bottles of high-end CA wine that he no longer enjoys. It happens with some frequency.