I wouldn’t put it the way David Z did or relegate these kinds of producers to being merely “the flavor of the month,” but it is true that we tend to forget the tried-and-true performers in the search for the new hot thing. I need to remind myself of that periodically.
Some producers are obviously better than others, but ranking producers rather than vineyards is a bit contrary to the spirit of pinot noir.
No one would’ve thought of Kosta Browne or Kistler as flavor of the month last decade, but they were. And the folks who “loaded up” or “went deep” on them got badly burned.
Interesting - I wouldn’t have taken a stab at this, but if forced to I think you have my list right there. With the exception that I’d be tempted to move WS up a couple notches. That said, I’ve had a greater percentage of disappointing bottles from WS than the others. There is some volatility that creeps into the early to mid 2000s WS wines. But you don’t see many folks talking about it which I fond somewhat perplexing. When they’re good though they can be really good.
You raise fair points David. I do generally prefer the brightness and acidity of a young pinot, although I’m sure my tastes will change over time. I acknowledge that I get caught up in Board darlings and I’m okay with that. I have limited time and resources to try and taste and so those biases show through. I’m more inclined to take a flyer on something new or “trendy” (lame, I know), over something tried and true because if the tried and true was definitively better, it would just be the way (at least IMO). I appreciate the references to some of the producers you mention - I will have to check them out.
Joe - I do tend to prefer Pinots with less than 10 years of age on them - again limited experiences - but that’s where my palate sits now.
And the folks who “loaded up” or “went deep” on them got badly burned.
Can you define/elaborate?
It’s only wine.
as a fellow newbie, I have enjoyed CA pinots from the following, for differing reasons I think. some are bit more fruit forward “big” wines from RRV and some from Anderson Valley.
I must admit I have not “loved” any SRH pinots to date (other than a tasting of Domaine de la cote) and I have not tried Rhys, either.
Copain
Kesner
Knez
Papapeitro Perry
The 09’s and '10 I’ve had from these producers over the past year have been very nice, seems a good window for these guys although some of the Copain Kiser wines I’m holding a bit longer.
My personal goal starting in '12 vintage and moving forward to is to drink more Williamette and Santa Cruz pinot to see how I like those and if I want to accumulate more of those producers.
Oooookay. Using only your list…
Williams Selyem for track record and remaining at the top, in my heart.
Littorai, around since the early 90’s and still well structured and true to their original style. (This is kind of a longevity vote compared to Rivers Marie, who I also enjoy.)
I like the area Copain comes from and like their wine, but also like Rivers Marie a great deal for the same reasons, so, a tie…but leaning toward Rivers Marie because of how nice they are! Yes, Rivers Marie…and will rise as more vintages accrue.
Rhys is structured for the long haul, I have simply not had experience with enough of their wines over time, but love their house style!
Not enough experience with the others for me to feel accurate.
_
As for omissions…
Jensen needs to be ranked top five.
I’d also put Santa Cruz Mountain Winery up there.
You can’t make a list of greatest Cali pinots without including Rochioli.
My new, young winery with a bullet, is Lynmar. Just typing this is gonna make me go home and open some! Fun to drink and fun to visit.
Chasseur is also delicious and I would insist people try these wines.
As Brian mentioned, the Ancillary pinots are bright and delicious. It’s just too soon for the track record part of the show.
Don’t be obtuse. Ending up with reams of expensive wine that you don’t want to drink and depreciated while you paid for storage is not a great outcome.
You’re making one big assumption.
And you could say that for most wines. Even if a wine appreciates, it means nothing until you sell it. And no guarantee you will be ahead of the game even if it does appreciate.
And it’s still only wine. “Badly burned” seems like a bit of exaggeration and a bit dramatic.
I probably have tasted ABC way more than any other Pinot producer. I really love Jim, he is generous to a fault and more knowledgeable about wine than most. That being said, I just am no a huge fan of his style.
Blake don’t kill me.
Are we in this conversation assuming that a good chunk/great deal of people feel burned by Kosta Browne and Kistler wines at this point? I’d be curious to know that, I’ve had only a few older Kosta Browne’s that I liked and some I didn’t but not a wealth of tasting experience with them (aged bottles wise).
Silly of me to overlook ABC.
Related to that: We opened a 1994 Ici/La-Bas Pinot Noir La Cagoule at Thanksgiving and it was superb.
Popped it, tasted a splash, let it hang out at cellar temp for about 3 hours, then had it with the array of foods on hand (duck, turkey, some beef tenderloin, various accoutrement) and perfecto.
The sad part is I remember the pinot festival from that year and it only seems like a year ago.
I think when they started charging $100/bottle, the “it’s only wine” schtick got real stale. But look, maybe you’re the sort of successful guy who can afford to waste $1,000s on wine that didn’t age and has crappy resale value. Congrats! Maybe all the folks dumping the wines at auction every week feel the same way.
At $100/btl I would hope they do age but yeah I have to agree with you here David, they should “produce” age worthy wines. I"m not a guy who can afford to waste thousands for wines that wont age (in the case that I decide to do this) so finding those flavor of the month producers you mentioned previously can be tough. Then again this message board can leave an impression on young wine drinkers like myself. 
David - I don’t disagree with a lot of what you have written in this thread and you raise a great point about thinking about ageworthiness and track record, for sure. I just want to provide one small data point, though, regarding this “badly burned” comment. As a result of a personal palate shift, I sent quite a few cases to wine bid last spring, primarily with the intention of clearing storage space and perhaps recouping at least some of my cost. The one wine I actually “made money” on was Kosta Browne. YMMV
What non-Cali PN would your offer as a benchmark to compare against say a 10 year old Kistler that’s in the the same price range? I’m not defending Kistler, but a quick check of CT shows that their average score is 93 points for their 2006 Kistler Pinot Noir Cuvée Elizabeth Bodega Headlands, their most widely held PN for that year. And that’s with over 100 tasting notes. We can argue about the merit of scores in CT, but you have to have some basis of fact in your assertions.
I do not have enough experience with all the Pinots in the OP, but for the three I do it’s a close horse race that goes down to the wire this way:
Littorai
Kutch
Rhys
+1 This gentleman has good taste!
Is there such a thing as a condescending rhetorical loaded question.? Not a lawyer so I wanted know.