Martin,
Great points indeed - especially in re-reading the OP.
Too often, though, folks simply follow what others do rather than finding their own path with regards to wine. I can’t count the number of times I’ve read threads about folks who have purchased release after release of a number of producers but have actually never tried them. I just don’t get this at all . . . but perhaps that’s just me.
Cheers.
Palate shift isn’t binary. One can start in either CA or Burgundy, as an example of style, and ultimately land liking both but there is no truth in the idea that people start in one place and end in the other.
I completely agree with Frank and continue to wonder why this argument is always put forward in this way…“all roads lead to Burgundy”. Very much like my tastes in music, I appreciate anything that’s good. Sometimes that’s old world, and sometimes it’s new. And there are lots of variations and places in between. Of course there are examples on even this board where folks have sold out of their new world wines and plunged into old world, but there are also many who dabble in both. Diversity is the spice of life!
Larry, Frank and Scott, all perfectly good points (although I only see the people shifting towards Burgundy and the like because that is what I sell).
And this particularly, Larry, like you, I just don’t get. There is an ocean of great wine, and it seems to be getting bigger, and there is always another offer around the corner. The only real way an inexperienced person is going to build a cellar he or she is going to enjoy down the road is to do it slowly according his or her palate (and avoid the irrational behavior fueled by mailing lists and the like).
Currently, I have very little experience with domestic Pinot Noir but that’s changing quickly. I don’t know why Kosta Brown is getting slammed here. I’ve had their 2009 Sonoma Coast (which was Wine Spectator’s #1 wine of 2011) and their 2007 Sonoma Coast (Wine Spectator’s #4 in 2009) and found them very good, so much so that, along with 2009 Copain, my low opinion of West Coast PN was altered. Is it unfashionable for me to agree with the critics? So be it (even though it isn’t very common for my palate to align with most of them.)
The statement…
… is my feeling also. If I can buy 3 bottles of 2007 KB for $200 (which I did recently at auction) then all the better for me! No need to get on a mailing list to pay MORE for new releases when I can buy slightly aged vintages for less. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
Precisely. I started with CA Pinot. Then I developed a taste for Burgundy. In the last 7 years or so I have come to really enjoy both. Quelle horreur!
Not really horrible because apparently you still really enjoy Burgundy (and Riesling). Joking aside, I expect that there are a lot more people who transition from new world Chardonnay/Pinot Noir to white/red Burgundy, or fleshier/lower acid wines to leaner/higher acid wines, than vice versa. Not even close.
Martin,
I think that is true of geeks. I have lots of “civilian” friends who enjoy their wine, and know enough but do not obsess. A large number of them have gone away from old world to new world in the last several years. I do tastings for my work friends, and they ask for much less old world wine than they used to. My geek friends are in fact much more old world centric.
Martin, in my view, David has this right. Perhaps within the small segment of the drinking community, where many of us might be found, you do find a liking and straight line pursuit for Burgundy and higher/leaner wines. I am one of them who fits what you describe, your point, Martin. However, where I don’t agree with you is that I or someone like me has to land in Burgundy because that is where the path leads. I’ll take a Copain Kiser or a Kutch Falstaff or a Rhys Bearwallow any day. I will also drink a sec Chidaine or a very low dose Jacquesson as often.
Which is precisely why Caymus 40th and wines of that ilk move like wildfire but get trashed on forums like this. If given the choice between purchasing 1 bottle of '95 Ponsot Chapelle-Chambertin or a bottle each of '09 Copain and '09 Kosta Brown, I’d choose the Ponsot… but if the Ponsot wasn’t available I’d happily snag the other two.
I like Burgundy and Riesling too, yet prefer riper vintages than David.
I am actually a pretty big fan of ripe vintage Burgs. My Riesling tastes are more moderate. I don’t care for extremes in Riesling (acid or sugar).
The one thing I’ll add is if you find yourself wanting to experience wines as they age, or are aged, then it can be a bit more difficult to locate your palate given the need for years to find such discoveries.
Dennis, in your honor, I opened my last 2009 Copain Wentzel tonight.
Nice! I have one more bottle currently, and am on the lookout for more.
I was using the expression because of the Arcadian post.
You make a good point.
For anyone who has tried Marcassin etc… You gotta have it as top of the heap.
I have tried Marcassin multiple times, and would never buy a bottle. It’s clear from your list that we are on very different ends of the Pinot spectrum. I actively dislike most of the producers you listed. Glad you enjoy them though.
Dennis, make me the happiest man on earth and get another vintage of Copain into your glass. 
2009 is a big vintage and like anything in life, there are dimensions to things. You should find some of the 2012 and see how that strikes you. It will have the fruit of 2009 but with acidity and tension that what makes the winery so good.
Frank, how you would you force rank these three/four with respect to the 2012 vintage?
David and Frank, yes, I expect that what I said pertains primarily to “geeks,” the sort with whom I have most of my dealings. You guys might even push me to open my first CA Pinot Noir in about 15 years. I believe that I have a total of four bottles in my cellar by reason of the generosity of a couple of winemakers: a 2008 Kutch (that is the smoke-plagued vintage, correct?) and a few 2008 and/or 2009 Rhys. I also have a bottle of Rhys Chardonnay and Syrah, from about the same time. That is my entire CA collection. Recommendations?
Martin, your best bet, if you are going to dip into what you have left, is to let Cellartracker be your guide. As geeks, I admit to be one, I try and keep all my amazing impressions chronicled over there.
You have now piqued my interest? For you, a person who drinks and has so much experience in this space, why not put some CA back into your frame and try some of the things we are talking here? Copain, Rhys, Kutch and the others. I mean, the guys that make these wines have the input and influence from the wines you love. Why not spend some time moving through more current versions of their wines to see what they’re investing themselves? If you look at my signature line, you can see where my heart lies and these are a few of the wines I woud encourage you to try.